Segways in the UK

[johnberry]

As a new Segway owner (two) I was interested to read Dennis Wintermans' article about HTs in the UK (and also of course, members comments on that article.

First af all, there are many more Segs in the UK than has been suggested. BAE's figures clearly fail to take account of the many "grey" Segways imported and sold by un-official importers. After some investigation there is evidence that several of these importers (individually) have sold considerably more Segways than BAE themselves. So I guess there are several hundred in the UK. Now, "grey" importers can only suceed when there are problems with Factory Distribution and Marketing Policies.

I was interested in buying 10 "P" series to rent out in enclosed public areas here in Norwich. As a businessman I expected some interest and support from BAE in the form of a discount. After all, what Segway need is EXPOSURE (promotion). No one here has ever seen a Segway and most have never heard of it, yet Norwich is one of the top five shopping cities in Europe..

BAE offered nothing exept "training" ??? and "service" ???
Which. I was told, would not be forthcoming if I purchased them from the USA. However, at £800 less for each unit(yes, including tax, duty and shipping)I could buy a further FOUR units for "spares" for the £8000 I am saving. In any event, it appears from a recent E Mail I have received from Segway that BAE cannot really service the units at all but merely act as a forwarding agent by sending units back to the Factory. I use one of my Segs for golf and this has caused considerable interest. Some other golfers are considering buying. Well, imagine this, if one day I turn up at my golf club without my Segway people will say "what'shappened to your machine, John?" If I then reply "oh it's had to go back to the factory in the US" just how many would then ever think of buying one?. The answer is a big fat ZERO.

As an experienced marketing man of luxury prestige products I feel that the Segway Marketing Policy is somewhat self destructive and extremly insular. This is such a shame as I feel that it is a wonderful product let down by poor marketing/service policy's

John Berry

[gbrandwood]

Hi John

I'm a fellow owner in the UK (I'm now on Segway number 2, but alas I only own 1) and I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your message.

It's a shame BAE couldn't offer you a discount for such a large order - I mean, you would expect something, and if you were buying anything else, you'd almost certainly get it. However, whilst BAE may not be able to service themselves (I'm not 100% sure about this), I really feel the support and advice on offer is worth a lot. I'm sure the most common faulty and broken bits can be sorted locally but I understand where you are coming from. It wouldn't bother me, except for the delay in having to have it shipped - unless of course a "courtesy seg" was offered...

From my understanding, in the UK, official marketing is minimal (okay, so minimal is an exaggeration!) because the units are not strictly legal here. I believe BAE's approach has been to target commercial applications where usage would be legal and purchasers would be aware and have real practical applications for their Segs.

Grey importers have done a little marketing and obtained some media interest, but at the end of the day, when I first bought mine, whilst I had researched the purchase and knew all about the likely legalities, I wasn't told that technically what I was buying would not be legally usable. That is very poor in my opinion. Fancy targeting this at consumers, touting their benefits, without explicitly explaining the reality of the situation. On that note, the number of grey importers will be reducing (so I've heard) as certain companies are having their supply chains chopped! If this happens, BAE will hopefully benefit but only if they return some this back to customers. Being a monopoly by geography is no good for anyone in the long term, least for the customers and especially as the world's market edges are blurring through globalisation.

I do believe more segs exist in the UK than was mentioned in the article - I've seen at least that many bought and sold via eBay. But until Segway lend some support and perhaps lead the way campaigning for changes in the law, we continue to fall further behind the like of France and Italy etc.

I don't know whether the Segway arm of BAE is a full time role, but I'd certainly like to see and hear more. Greater awareness will help in the long run but in the short term, sometimes I think it is best that people don't know the ins and outs of the Segway - so I can carry on 'getting away' with using my ultra environmentally friendly, safe form of illegal transportation.

Gareth


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To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[johnberry]

Gareth,

Thanks for all your comments.I agree with (almost) all of them.
I understand that one does not wish to "scupper" the market by selling without giving the correct advice. However, one has to bear in mind that there are many other forms of "illegal" transport on offer. Electric and motorised scooters for one (and even "push-bikes" on pavements). Furthermore, there are many other areas where Segs are illegal, including of course some States in the USA. However, that has not stopped authorised outlets from selling, promoting and servicing them. Additionally we must not forget that there are many enjoyable ways of using Segs without breaking the law (XT and GT). Getting back to advice, this web site gives far more than any other source.
With regard to cutting off sources of supply, well, you dont have to be very clever to order a "bunch" of new Segs using a USA address! Lastly, I still have the Segway E Mail that confirms BAE "does not have the equipment or training" but that they will "co-ordinate" (meaning ship) Segway repairs.

John Berry.
quote:Originally posted by gbrandwood

Hi John

I'm a fellow owner in the UK (I'm now on Segway number 2, but alas I only own 1) and I agree with a lot of what you are saying in your message.

It's a shame BAE couldn't offer you a discount for such a large order - I mean, you would expect something, and if you were buying anything else, you'd almost certainly get it. However, whilst BAE may not be able to service themselves (I'm not 100% sure about this), I really feel the support and advice on offer is worth a lot. I'm sure the most common faulty and broken bits can be sorted locally but I understand where you are coming from. It wouldn't bother me, except for the delay in having to have it shipped - unless of course a "courtesy seg" was offered...

From my understanding, in the UK, official marketing is minimal (okay, so minimal is an exaggeration!) because the units are not strictly legal here. I believe BAE's approach has been to target commercial applications where usage would be legal and purchasers would be aware and have real practical applications for their Segs.

Grey importers have done a little marketing and obtained some media interest, but at the end of the day, when I first bought mine, whilst I had researched the purchase and knew all about the likely legalities, I wasn't told that technically what I was buying would not be legally usable. That is very poor in my opinion. Fancy targeting this at consumers, touting their benefits, without explicitly explaining the reality of the situation. On that note, the number of grey importers will be reducing (so I've heard) as certain companies are having their supply chains chopped! If this happens, BAE will hopefully benefit but only if they return some this back to customers. Being a monopoly by geography is no good for anyone in the long term, least for the customers and especially as the world's market edges are blurring through globalisation.

I do believe more segs exist in the UK than was mentioned in the article - I've seen at least that many bought and sold via eBay. But until Segway lend some support and perhaps lead the way campaigning for changes in the law, we continue to fall further behind the like of France and Italy etc.

I don't know whether the Segway arm of BAE is a full time role, but I'd certainly like to see and hear more. Greater awareness will help in the long run but in the short term, sometimes I think it is best that people don't know the ins and outs of the Segway - so I can carry on 'getting away' with using my ultra environmentally friendly, safe form of illegal transportation.

Gareth


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To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[gbrandwood]

I agree, John - especially the bit about this site being very informative - and I think it is largely helped by the good mix of real-life individual owners (of which there is a critical mass) and the many dealers and even the odd semi-official posting from someone official.

In my short time here, I've spoken to fellow UK owners, chatters from all over the world, the Segway Webmaster (!) and even Doug Field! Phew!


-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[Gyroman]

Hi all - Brits and other fellow gliders,

As a very long-term lurker at this forum, it's a shame that my first post has to be to defend the BAE Systems business from attack in this way.

In the UK we have been quietly getting on with increasing public awareness through targetted media and public events aimed at increasing the positive public reaction which can only assist our mission to work with Segway LLC achieve the desired legal status in this country. In our view this can only be hindered by the too-early setting-up of businesses which would aim to challenge the current laws by their use in public spaces.

[The UK laws, by the way, are quite clear: Until the Segway HT achieves its separate status (such as the EPAMD in US law) it is a vehicle. As such, since it does not have the particular exemption status of the electric wheelchair, it cannot be used on the pavements. If it were to be used on the road (where we don't really want it - we have memories of the C5 debacle) it would need type-approval, insurance, taxing etc. Without legislation it can't simply drop onto the cycle lanes either.]

Without naming names, the position of certain grey importers resident in the UK has been causing grief, not just to me but to all my fellow dealers in Europe and, indeed, to those who have bought machines through that route. Segway LLC has good reason for try to control the emergence of their machines into any given country to ensure that the support structure and the legal situation have been addressed beforehand. I have had countless calls from, and have ended up supplying parts to, customers of one such 'dealer' who, after their initial purchase have found that he was totally unable or unwilling to provide any post-sales support whatsoever.

Let me be very clear on one thing - we are completely established and set up to support our customers in the UK with warranty and non-warranty repairs and servicing, plus provision of spares and accessories, as well as new machines. To suggest otherwise is just completely untrue - we were one of the first off-shore distributors to be trained in servicing as well as train-the-trainer training.

Incidently, our close relationship with Segway LLC comes from the fact that we, through our joint-venture company Silicon Sensing, are the designer and sole supplier of the Balance Sensor Assembly in every one of your machines - its real heart in my biased opinion! With our particular business interests and established customers in these markets, it was natural that we should start introducing the Segway HT back into the UK for productivity-improvement applications.

Whilst I have also sold machines to private individuals where I know that their use is on private property, I have also refused to supply where I know that the application would damage our attempts to maintain good relations with our Department for Transport. We are under no illusions that the UK will be tough nut to crack - and the emergence and clamp-down of the go-peds, electric scooters etc does not help our case either.

We are 100% committed to achieving public (and governmental)acceptance of the Segway HT and look forward to the subsequent roll-out of tours and other ventures that are now established in other European countries.

And yes, it was me that got our Prince Charles on a machine a few years ago - with the pictures going right round the world.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/gallery-year/2002/002.11.14_gyro.html

Also, we have done TV programmes such as Tomorrow's World, Top Gear, Ministry of Mayhem etc (yes, I'm afraid that crazy frog video had something to do with us too). We have regularly provided machines for events such as the recent 'Green Transport Day' in London and currently have two Segway HTs being used by the Royal Navy at our Trafalgar Celebrations and International Festival of the Sea celebrations.

Finally, we are wrestling with a difficult problem right now - the exorbitant cost of shipping Li-equipped machines into the UK under the regulations for 'hazardous' materials. That (plus import duties and our Value Added Tax) is making it hard for us to match the US dollar prices. To ignore the regulations is not an option, but were are seeking smart ways of reducing the machine cost to our customers.

Well, posting wasn't so painful after all. I have gained a tremendous amount of information from the Segwaychat over the years. It's a bit sad to see some of the divisions that have emerged over recent months but I'm confident that the spirit of the community will shine through - after all united communities CAN change the status quo. Maybe I'll be back!

Andy
BAE Systems

[Guido]

Now this is interesting!
In Europe we are being held in stragulation by Segway as a matter of fact. Segway is not allowing her dealers to sell across the borders of their country.
Considering most countries only have one dealer we are at the mercy of the local dealership.
Same thing happened in Europe in the car business and the EU put a hold to that! Monti-legislation if I recall correctly.

I understood that the EU is currently running an investigation on this practice that Segway forces upon their European dealers.
I guess in a short while we will at least be able to shop around in Europe to get a good quote when buying.
I at least look forward to that opportunity, because I like to see some competition over here in Europe.

[pam]

Welcome, both Gyroman and Guido. Two very different takes on what may be very similar issues. And - as far as I can see, Gyroman's post may explain some of what Guido is experiencing. However, that said, LLC (as I seem to recall from some earlier posts) does not allow one dealer in the US to sell "in another dealer's territory" - it's a way of protecting the individual dealers.

What would help, Guido, would be to have more than one dealer in a country, I guess. That, too, will come, eventually, I would expect. It's only been a year or so that we've had dealers here in the US, so the dealer network is a new thing, and Europe is VERY new territory.

Pam

[Zorba9]

Hi Andy, long time - no hear! (we go back a bit)Welcome and glad you finally quit lurking.:) You guys have had a hard road there in the UK and it looks as if your work is finally paying off. Do you see the possibilty of favorable legislation in the near future?

KOG

Zorba9.....

[Gyroman]

Hi Zorba,

I think it depends what you mean by 'near future'. In geological timescales yes, almost immediately! In terms of UK legislative process timescales, changes seem to be possible at a rate of one word per fortnight..... Seriously, I think it will be a hard road, but I am convinced that it can be aided by public support, and HINDERED by indiscriminate public usage in the meantime.

We need to make sure that the MPs and officials see it as a 'vote-winner' - nothing is more likely to achieve a result. We have our Transport Committee in the House of Lords reviewing our Road Safety Bill currently, with amendments being proposed by our Lord Attlee to make provision for Segway-like machines NOT being classed as vehicles:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldbills/005/amend/ml005-iid.htm

A bit dry, and it's not going to sort it out by itself, but it's a start. Changes would also be needed to our Road Traffic Act and probably others too. The main aim is to get commitment to evaluation by the Dept for Transport. As to when it could all come good....? Who knows - 6 months, two years.... we run a slow system in the UK.

Andy
BAE Systems

[gbrandwood]

Andy, so glad you finally posted! I was honestly going to forward you a link as I thought this might be the ideal time for you to stand up and be counted. I hope you feel my comments are reasonably well balanced (they are, at least, my honest opinions) and as I've said before, I'd like to help promote positive segging in the UK in any way I can. In my own little way, I feel I'm already taking positive action.

Can't forgive you for the crazy frog though! ;)

Hope to see more of you on-line.

All the best

Gareth


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To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[johnberry]

Andy,
Well, I guess I am the one who made it necessary to post your point.
Firstly, I completely understand the philosophy of not wishing to rock the boat with regard to people wishing to use the Segway in public whilst doing so is still illegal, but, you cannot stop it!I'm not sure that restricting sales is the answer. What may be the answer is to work with the current owners, regardless as to where they purchased their unit from.
Reading your reply with regard to being, and I quote, "set up to support our customers in the UK with warranty and non-warranty repairs and servicing", I note that you still do not claim that you actually service the units yourselves, can do upgrades or even stock service parts.
I could be forgiven for reading into this, supported by a recent E Mail I have from LLC (happy to send you a copy) that you may consider being "set-up" as meaning little more than being able to ship back to, or obtain from, LLC? If I am wrong about this then I would also be happy for Segway owners. You would then need to ask LLC why they sent me an E Mail to state that BAE does "not have the equipment or training" to carry out the factory up-grade, which incidentally, I have already had done by a factory trained engineer residing in the UK.
If you wish to contact me privately then you are free to do so. [email protected] (07836612958)
quote:Originally posted by Gyroman

Hi all - Brits and other fellow gliders,

As a very long-term lurker at this forum, it's a shame that my first post has to be to defend the BAE Systems business from attack in this way.

In the UK we have been quietly getting on with increasing public awareness through targetted media and public events aimed at increasing the positive public reaction which can only assist our mission to work with Segway LLC achieve the desired legal status in this country. In our view this can only be hindered by the too-early setting-up of businesses which would aim to challenge the current laws by their use in public spaces.

[The UK laws, by the way, are quite clear: Until the Segway HT achieves its separate status (such as the EPAMD in US law) it is a vehicle. As such, since it does not have the particular exemption status of the electric wheelchair, it cannot be used on the pavements. If it were to be used on the road (where we don't really want it - we have memories of the C5 debacle) it would need type-approval, insurance, taxing etc. Without legislation it can't simply drop onto the cycle lanes either.]

Without naming names, the position of certain grey importers resident in the UK has been causing grief, not just to me but to all my fellow dealers in Europe and, indeed, to those who have bought machines through that route. Segway LLC has good reason for try to control the emergence of their machines into any given country to ensure that the support structure and the legal situation have been addressed beforehand. I have had countless calls from, and have ended up supplying parts to, customers of one such 'dealer' who, after their initial purchase have found that he was totally unable or unwilling to provide any post-sales support whatsoever.

Let me be very clear on one thing - we are completely established and set up to support our customers in the UK with warranty and non-warranty repairs and servicing, plus provision of spares and accessories, as well as new machines. To suggest otherwise is just completely untrue - we were one of the first off-shore distributors to be trained in servicing as well as train-the-trainer training.

Incidently, our close relationship with Segway LLC comes from the fact that we, through our joint-venture company Silicon Sensing, are the designer and sole supplier of the Balance Sensor Assembly in every one of your machines - its real heart in my biased opinion! With our particular business interests and established customers in these markets, it was natural that we should start introducing the Segway HT back into the UK for productivity-improvement applications.

Whilst I have also sold machines to private individuals where I know that their use is on private property, I have also refused to supply where I know that the application would damage our attempts to maintain good relations with our Department for Transport. We are under no illusions that the UK will be tough nut to crack - and the emergence and clamp-down of the go-peds, electric scooters etc does not help our case either.

We are 100% committed to achieving public (and governmental)acceptance of the Segway HT and look forward to the subsequent roll-out of tours and other ventures that are now established in other European countries.

And yes, it was me that got our Prince Charles on a machine a few years ago - with the pictures going right round the world.

http://www.princeofwales.gov.uk/gallery-year/2002/002.11.14_gyro.html

Also, we have done TV programmes such as Tomorrow's World, Top Gear, Ministry of Mayhem etc (yes, I'm afraid that crazy frog video had something to do with us too). We have regularly provided machines for events such as the recent 'Green Transport Day' in London and currently have two Segway HTs being used by the Royal Navy at our Trafalgar Celebrations and International Festival of the Sea celebrations.

Finally, we are wrestling with a difficult problem right now - the exorbitant cost of shipping Li-equipped machines into the UK under the regulations for 'hazardous' materials. That (plus import duties and our Value Added Tax) is making it hard for us to match the US dollar prices. To ignore the regulations is not an option, but were are seeking smart ways of reducing the machine cost to our customers.

Well, posting wasn't so painful after all. I have gained a tremendous amount of information from the Segwaychat over the years. It's a bit sad to see some of the divisions that have emerged over recent months but I'm confident that the spirit of the community will shine through - after all united communities CAN change the status quo. Maybe I'll be back!

Andy
BAE Systems

[johnberry]

Dear Guido,
Well, I see nothing to stop anyone buying from any dealer anywhere. Only a smidgeon of ingenuity is required.
I can still buy from the P series from the USA at no more than $2700.
It seems to me that USA companies just do not understand thatwe brits will never be put off by price fixing cartels. In fact I honestly believe that such policies and the accompanying threats (no warranty/service/training) makes us even more determined to by-pass the system. Such policies are extremely naive and can do nothing but harm to the cause. Also The factory should understand that a warranty is for the Product and not the Customer. I do not believe that in the USA a client that has bought his Segway from Texas and then moves to New York has to take his unit back to Texas for servicing. So why could I not get my new Segway (if i had a new one)warranted in the UK just because i purchased it in,say Germany? This is all "dark ages" stuff, The world, or at least Europe, has moved on considerably.

quote: Welcome, both Gyroman and Guido. Two very different takes on what may be very similar issues. And - as far as I can see, Gyroman's post may explain some of what Guido is experiencing. However, that said, LLC (as I seem to recall from some earlier posts) does not allow one dealer in the US to sell "in another dealer's territory" - it's a way of protecting the individual dealers.

What would help, Guido, would be to have more than one dealer in a country, I guess. That, too, will come, eventually, I would expect. It's only been a year or so that we've had dealers here in the US, so the dealer network is a new thing, and Europe is VERY new territory.

Pam

[gbrandwood]

John, I believe Andy has the equipment for upgrades - which is very handy with the Li-ions coming our way. He also has an e model which he has offered to let me try if I'm ever down that way (will take him up on it one day).

More than one dealer in any country would of course bring in the dynamics of competition. If the prices are fixed (more or less - which is for another debate) then I guess the competition would be fought over service and support. As BAE are the only official supplier in the UK, I believe they have a distinct opportunity to capitalise on this fact and start building the relationships now, so that when more official competition does arrive, they will still be the favourite choice. In my opinion, the worst thing they could do would be to refuse to support segs purchased via other channels. This would send out the wrong message. Whilst they may be in a position now that affords them that luxury, in the future it would come back to bite their arse. But, luckily, Andy has stated clearly that he will offer support - so that is a good thing.

Andy, that link to the proposed legislative changes is encouraging. I know it will take time, but I'm sure we will get there.

Can you give us any more details about the Segway operation at BAE? Exactly what services you do offer to all, for example, are upgrades available now to v14? Do you have Li-ion stock in, if not, what is the latest ETA? How many people that work for BAE wear a Segway hat? Is your role concerning Segway full-time - or are you involved in other BAE activities? All interesting stuff if you ask me.

Gareth


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To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[johnberry]

Gareth,

Well, seems we actually have a new UK official dealer.
Wayne Mitchell of ECOBECK, Matlock Derbys.
0162956666 (www.segway;uk.net) Wayne states that they have only become official in the last few weeks and that they specialise in electric mobility.
Check it out on their site.
John.

[johnberry]

Gareth,
If BAE have all the upgrade equipment, then why do LLC say they dont have it? (Please be sure I would not make such a comment on either heresay or guesswork. (I DO have the recent LLC E Mail)
Furthermore, ECOBECK say they do not have the upgrade equipment (for the Li-ions) either, but are waiting for it. Even although they have completed all the LLC training.

John

[Gyroman]

All,

Let's be very clear about this: NO distributor (UK or otherwise) has the 'upgrade equipment' necessary to uprate the Segway HT's software to be capable of working with both Li-Ion and NiMH batteries. IF that is what is being referred to in their e-mail, then Segway LLC is correct. Although all new machines are delivered with that new software, separate Li-Ion batteries will not be available for machine upgrades until closer to the end of the year. Hence the role-out of that software 'upgrade equipment' to distributors (a laptop connecting into the Control Shaft Base) is not yet necessary, and is not a priority for Segway LLC.

UK purchasers also need to understand that there ARE extra costs associated with acquiring machines in this country - import duties and VAT as two examples. Whilst I cannot, and would not, stop such purchasers from bypassing these through their private arrangements, there is no way that I can do this within my business. And, whilst I am indeed passionate about pushing forward the standing of the Segway in this country, I think it is a valid point for debate as to whether I owe the SAME level of support to those who have not purchased through 'official' channels. As Gareth knows, I have treated each case on its merits.

It is also worth noting that warranty cover, on UK-based machines purchased in the US, is only implementable by shipping those machines back to the US.

Guys, hang in with us. We will get where we want to be, but only if Segway businesses in the UK can sustain their profitability until such time as legalisation is achieved. In the meantime, usage by businesses, as well as GT and XT leisure use, can only solidify the foundations we are attempting to build for its public acceptance.

Andy
BAE Systems

[gbrandwood]

John, it looks like I was wrong about the upgrade capabilities. I don't doubt your email, it's just I think I misunderstood an earlier email from Andy about being able to upgrade software. Thought that gave the ability to upgrade to v14 too. :(. It's not just the li-ion ability, it was the no-timeout feature I was after. I can wait!

Anyway, now that is cleared up... the website you pointed me to (http://www.segway-uk.net) is looking very promising. Many thanks for the link. I've signed up for their mailing list and look forward to hearing more. Hopefully they will join Andy and post here on the forum (unless they already do...!). Things are really hotting up in the UK.

BTB, I saw in the recent issue of Sky Magazine, Top Gear and Brainiac presenter, Richard Hammond, also has a seg. I really need to sort out that "celebs with segs" topic...


-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[SegwayUtah]

quote:Originally posted by Gyroman

It is also worth noting that warranty cover, on UK-based machines purchased in the US, is only implementable by shipping those machines back to the US.

Wait--so if I take my HT with me to use on private property in England, and it breaks, I have to send it back to the USA to get fixed?

Chris

[segwaybcn]

Hello all!
just wanted to give some inside information about Segway in Europe to help all understand the situation and difficulties of distributing Segways in other countries.

I am an official dealership of Segways in Barcelona, Spain. We have been distributing them for about three months, and sales, although no numbers can be given, are very promising. In spain, the Segway is not legal, but it is not ilegal either. There is already a local police that has purchased them to patrol, and there are other public administrations considering it.

For those who don't know, Segway has a technical center in Italy. In our case, dealers can replace almost any part of the Segway except, the battery transformer, which can be done by the Spanish importer located outside Barcelona, and the sealed engine/motherboard/gearbox, which can be replaced or repaired by the Italian center.

Regarding costs, which is, aside legal issues, the largest problem of all, it will be difficult to overcome unless Segway LLC sets up a plant in Europe. Otherwise, it will be difficult considering transportation, european import taxes, and VAT (in Spain is 16%). Also consider that in the US, there is a three step distribution chain, from Segway-to-Dealership-to-customer whereas in Europe there is a four-step one, from Segway-to-NationalImporter-to-Dealership-to-Customer, which makes it either for lower margins or higher prices.

It is a complicated route, but doing things well will pay back in the future for both businesses and customers.

Cheers,

Eric

[dgbint]

quote:Originally posted by SegwayUtah

quote:Originally posted by Gyroman

It is also worth noting that warranty cover, on UK-based machines purchased in the US, is only implementable by shipping those machines back to the US.

Wait--so if I take my HT with me to use on private property in England, and it breaks, I have to send it back to the USA to get fixed?

Chris



Don't get too excited.
Segway in Australia ( www.segwaysoutherncross.com )deal with each case on it's merits.
I am confident that Andy would have a similar policy.
It goes roughly like this (but each case is considered on it's merits).

1
A visitor to our country, who has brought their HT with them would enjoy our full support.

2
A migrant or long term visitor who has brought their HT with them would enjoy our support.

3
A local who has already made a choice that it's worth the risk of buying through other channels will bear the consequences of their earlier ( free and unfettered ) choice.
That means that we will support them 'at charge', or assist them to ship their HT back to their service point.
Part of the purchase decision should be: will that grey ghost dealer be out there when ( or if ) I need them ? Maybe that's why their offerings 'appear' to be a little cheaper !

No HT owner will be left out in the cold by us !

Michael

[gbrandwood]

When I bought my car, I bought it from Birmingham because they gave me the best deal. However, I get all my servicing done in Manchester. Manchester make more money out of the servicing and are very happy for it. The same would apply if I bought my car abroad. Surely dealers should welcome the extra business in any form? Sure, maybe not give the same levels of free advice, but, hey, why not, it might win you a new customer next time. Like I said way above, while there are shortages of dealers, they may get away with it. When Segway really does take off and competition increases - these attitudes will pull the companies down.


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To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[Gyroman]

Spot on, Michael! Perfectly presented.

(...and good to catch up with you amongst the other International distributors in Monaco recently!)

Andy
BAE Systems

[dgbint]

Sure.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear.

1
After sales ( non-warranty ) service, where we properly charge for our work, no worries !

2
Free warranty service, that's what I was talking about.

Michael

[gbrandwood]

'Free' warranty work carried out by the garage is still charged at normal rates, it's just that as a customer, I don't pay it. It is reclaimed by the garage because my car is under warranty. I take it things don't work that way with a seg? Shame. There's lots of good and bad practice to learn from in the moto industry.

Following on from John's news about "Segway UK", I see Segway.com has updated it's international distributors page (http://www.segway.com/shop/international.html) to read as follows:

BAE Systems - Military sales only
Mr Andy Hughes
Clittaford Road
Southway, Plymouth
Devon, PL6 6DE
Tel. +44 1752 722324
Fax: +44 1752 723331
Email: [email protected]

Segway UK
Wayne Mitchell
43 Bakewell Road
Matlock, Derbyshire
DE4 3AU Tel. +44 01629 56666
Email: [email protected]

I see it notes BAE as "Military sales only" and on segway-uk.net, it states: "Ecovec is the official sole UK distributor of all Segway products. Any other company selling Segway products may not be selling the latest products and are not connected in any way to the parent company in America or Ecovec Segway-UK.". Hmmm. Quoting the aforementioned Crazy Frog, "What's going on?".

-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[johnberry]

Andy,
Further to your post of 5th July.
As you will see from my posts I was never referring to the LI-Ion software upgrade (I have always known no-one in the UK has it yet). Actually I was mainly concerned with the earlier up-grades. It probably deos not matter any more because there is now another official UK outlet. Interestingly you have still refrained from comfirming whether BAE actually carry out servicing direct or stock spares (not acessories). Undoubtably this is an oversight.
John Berry.




quote:Originally posted by dgbint

quote:Originally posted by SegwayUtah

quote:Originally posted by Gyroman

It is also worth noting that warranty cover, on UK-based machines purchased in the US, is only implementable by shipping those machines back to the US.

Wait--so if I take my HT with me to use on private property in England, and it breaks, I have to send it back to the USA to get fixed?

Chris



Don't get too excited.
Segway in Australia ( www.segwaysoutherncross.com )deal with each case on it's merits.
I am confident that Andy would have a similar policy.
It goes roughly like this (but each case is considered on it's merits).

1
A visitor to our country, who has brought their HT with them would enjoy our full support.

2
A migrant or long term visitor who has brought their HT with them would enjoy our support.

3
A local who has already made a choice that it's worth the risk of buying through other channels will bear the consequences of their earlier ( free and unfettered ) choice.
That means that we will support them 'at charge', or assist them to ship their HT back to their service point.
Part of the purchase decision should be: will that grey ghost dealer be out there when ( or if ) I need them ? Maybe that's why their offerings 'appear' to be a little cheaper !

No HT owner will be left out in the cold by us !

Michael

[johnberry]

Michael,
I am not sure you post referring to clients purchasing "grey imports" really covers the instance where a Segway is purchased through an official dealer, but in another country. This would be an official purchase and not a "grey" one.
As I have said before, warrantees are for the product and not the individual. Also, any gegraphical movement of the product should in no way effect the warranty or the local dealers ability to carry it out (sour grapes excluded of course). It is, after all, LLC who are paying for it.
John Berry

[johnberry]

Andy,
Reading you post of 5th again I should point out that at no time have I suggested that BAE should avoid duties and taxes in order to give a fairer deal (to bulk purchases for example). Perhaps you omitted to see that in my original post I clearly stated thet my £800 saving per unit on "P" series was after paying VAT and duty. Otherwise my price comparison would not have been fair.

Thought I needed to clarify this point.

John Berry

[johnberry]

Chris,

Sending your seg back to the USA for warranty?
Well you may be right although some say that each case is "treated on its merits".
This should not be the case of course, as it will undoubtably be abused to . Importers seem to be saying that LLC want all units (purchased from the USA)sent back to the USA .
This is clearly not only impracticle but very un-professional.
The factory need guidance as they are clearly un familiar with european attitudes and leglislatioin governing other similiar luxury imported products (which helps to shape those attitudes).
If I were the importer (and i have no wish to become one) I would impress upon LLC the amount of bad feeling that this will cause. Furthermore I would be insisting that they allow me to carry out proper warranty on these units as a matter of honest business procedure and good PR.

John Berry.

quote:


quote:Originally posted by Gyroman

It is also worth noting that warranty cover, on UK-based machines purchased in the US, is only implementable by shipping those machines back to the US.

Wait--so if I take my HT with me to use on private property in England, and it breaks, I have to send it back to the USA to get fixed?

Chris

[BenjiUK]

Well I missed this one, too much going on in this forum to keep up with!

I'm a UK segway owner of 2+ years now. I bought mine through PlanetMoto which at the time seemed the best route, but as time has shown was certainly not.

They sold me insurance cover and a 2 year warranty on the unit. When I began having problems last September they refused to accept they had sold me this cover and have not returned emails, letters or phone calls about it. The warranty period has now passed and I'm left with a segway which needs attention. The insurance cover was through a mobility carriage company who had zero understanding of the unit. They suggested I took it to my local wheelchair shop for assessment before they would cover any costs involved in return shipping to the US!!

Thankfully I have made friends with BAE and I will at some point get down to plymouth to get the machine looked at. Maybe now we have Segway UK I can take it to Derby which is a bit less of a trek from Birmingham. Andy at BAE has already supplied me with brand new replacement batteries so he must have some parts available to him.

The Segway UK warranty makes interesting reading, lots of bits covered by 90 day warranties, I thought this wasn't legal in the UK?? I might be, and probably am wrong though :-)

Once the UK stuff is properly setup I would expect you could go to any segway outlet and they would service/repair your machine. If segway offers 1 year then that should be global just as if I buy a canon camera, apple computer, miele washing machine etc a warranty is a warranty between customer and company, placing geographic restrictions I think is foolish.

Of course out of warranty is a different matter, and that's down to the parties involved to negotiate. I'm not sure though on an item costing £3500 if UK consumer law wouldn't state it should be expected to last more than 1 year.

All issues I'm sure we'll see resolved in the months/years to come!

Cheers
B.

[gbrandwood]

Good to hear from you Benji! I was interested in knowing about the insurance you took out but it sounds like it wasn't worth much in the end. What exactly is up with your unit?


-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[BenjiUK]

It's very odd.

It seems to like to turn clockwise of its own accord. It also started to shutdown when I was going along, only did it twice when I was at top speed. I've been able to replicate it shutting down by going round the car park at work, basically if you drive it hard it doesn't like it. SOmetimes (most of the time really) its fine, just annoying when it goes wrong.

I think it's linked with the turning clockwise thing. I've replaced the steering grip but that doesn't seem to help. Normally when gliding along you are constantly making adjustments to the steering due to uneven pavements so the slight clokwise drift is being compensated for, but when stopped or going in a dead straight line the computer is receiving a turn signal it doesn't want. I'm not sure how much redundancy is in the steering control, maybe the 2 or 3 things aren't adding up.

I've even had it turning when I'm not on it, i.e. starts to turn, I get off, it carries on turning.

Andy suggests we swap the control shaft, but its an expensive part which I would have to purchase. I've been on a BAE segway maybe 2 now and the steering seemed looser, maybe I've just been unlucky to get 2 duff steering grips?

Insurance, I wouldn't bother. I've got the unit covered on our houshold policy for theft, I would like to have some public liability in the least, so any one else out there who has this in place speak up!

Cheers
B.

[gbrandwood]

If you're ever my way (Cheshire), you're welcome to try my cs. Are you v12?


-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[BenjiUK]

I'm at whatever version it shipped with 2+ years ago, no updates or patches applied.

I'm going to call the Segway UK guys tomorrow and see what they say, a trip to Matlock would be a nice day out, got to escape the heat here 31c/88f today which is too hot for me!

That must sound very girly to the southern US people here, but for the UK it's quite warm... honest!!