The REAL cost of charging the Segway.

[drolsinatas]

I remember reading that it only costs 10c to charge the Segway. Has anyone here done any testing on this? I'm wondering how much electricity my Li-ion battery is consuming when charging.

Anyone?

This thing rules.

[yosgof]

Logic says - about twice as much as NiMH

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[drolsinatas]

hahaha, yeah i know that part! Thanks for the tip. What I am asking though is "Is it really 10c of electricity from a dead to full charge for the NiMH's?"

This thing rules.

[Ground Loop]

Here is a charge plot from completely dead NiMH batteries to fully topped off. A normal charge would be a little less than this (~550WHr), since you rarely run the batteries all the way down (wall lean discharge, for example)
http://www.trix.com/GroundLoop/full-charge.gif
You can see from the "accumulated power" line that this whole operation consumed about 0.7 KWhr, which is usually what you get billed for. Here in California, we have some very expensive electricity (~0.12-0.15/KWhr), so this represents about ten cents.

If you figure a battery pack is good for a couple hundred cycles, (much less in my case), then the cost of the battery far outweighs the electricity used in charging. Replacement battery costs are over ONE DOLLAR a charge. Think about that for a moment. How will LiIon compare in terms of cost-of-use?

[Deviant]

First, the cost of electricity across the country varies, so you have to know your costs (after all "extra" charges - take the final amount divided by your usage and ignore the published rates).

To discover what your machine requires after either a full drain or your normal daily usage, the best way is to use a watt meter that is plugged between your Segway and the wall outlet. As they always say, "Your mileage may vary!"

If your meter says that it took 900 watthours (example: 150 watts for 6 hours) to charge your Segway, and your cost of electricity is 11 cents/kwh (kilowatthour), then 900/1000=.9kwh; .9khw x .11cents/kwh = $.099 = 9.9 cents.

I have no idea how much electricity the new batteries require, so if anyone posts their results (include peak watts to help size inverters), we can all learn.

Thanks.

[citivolus]

quote:Originally posted by Ground Loop

Here in California, we have some very expensive electricity (~0.12-0.15/KWhr), so this represents about ten cents.
That's very expensive!? I'm paying 16.1¢/kW·hr now and that's down from 18.9¢ in 2001, but that was before deregulation. That puts a Segway charge at about one bit.

--
swiftly flying

[Ground Loop]

You're right.. going by Deviant's formula and including the litany of fee and surcharges, my last power bill worked out to $0.1884 for each kWh. Almost nineteen cents. So I'm paying about thirteen cents for the charge above.

[X-man]

Worrying about that is almost as bad as inquiring how much the range would be reduced if you installed air conditionimg. :)
Go out and glide and have fun.

Bob.

Where goeth I, goeth my Segway.

[Ground Loop]

Do the batteries come with any kind of lifespan guarantee, like the warranty on every car battery?

If I kick down the megabucks for LiIon packs, and they die as quickly as my NiMH one did, I'd be very upset about the cost. Dollar per mile, it might be cheaper to taxi. :(

[Brooster]

Fortunately, my old NiMH packs are still hanging in there, but I have to admit that I'm far from being an everyday user.

One day they will go t*ts up though, and I'll have to make a decision about NiMH vs. Lithium. A lot of us will ... provided the Lithium batteries ever do become available.

I'm extremely surprised at how few comments we've seen about the new batteries, from people who own them on their new i180's. I really thought more people would be raving about these batteries and how wonderful it is to not have to worry about striking off on a 15 or 20 mile glide. Instead, we hear next to nothing about what it's like to own these batteries.

Here's my question: $1,500 for a set of these batteries (which is what it supposedly will cost us) is an insane amount of money. People who own them ... is the experience really worth it, and would you buy them again? Thanks.

Brooster

[stevew]

I would imagine most of the I180/w/LiOn owners are first timers, hence they've never experienced the shorter nimh range us early adopters have to deal with. When you come to think of it, an electric vehicle with 20mi range seems pretty ordinary, although the HT is an extraordinary electric vehicle.

Segway -- Put some balance in your life.

[Brooster]

Good point Steve ... outside of TerryP and Scoghill, both of whom have written here about their experiences (and reported good range), I'm hard-pressed to think of any other "old timers" who've bought the new machines. But there have to be more, and I'm anxious to hear the stories and impressions about the new batteries. Aside from making the commute to work and back home a bit more stress-free, are they changing the way that people actually use their Segs? Are there new applications for the Seg made possible by the new batteries? This is the stuff I'm waiting to hear.

I'd also like to know what the hold-up is with Valence Technologies and these Saphion batteries. This has been in development how many years now, and they're not able to produce sufficient product to satisfy demand halfway through peak season after the product's official release? Perhaps they learned a lesson from Axicon ... not to commit to producing any given number of units for a company that isn't living up to expectations. They're probably playing it smart.





Brooster

[segtownmst]

As for me, no matter what it costs me to charge my Seg, it will continue to be cheaper than keeping my truck filled with Gas at the Bay Area gas rates. My current math showes me that even with my monthly lease payment plus estimated charging costs, I still save about 50 bucks a month from what I sued to pay for gas in my truck. I'm happy to keep it charged.

~Matt

[bystander]

Even though I became a HT owner this year, I've been reading these forums ever since the early adopters noted the first question asked was "How much?".

Of course that's happening to me now, but I find it isn't always question #1. About half the time I hear "Where did you get that?" first.

In my case I am obliged to tell them the closest dealer is nearly an hour away in typical traffic. That sometimes dampens their enthusiasm nearly as much as the price of a new model.

Ironically, there are six car dealerships, a used car lot, and a boat dealership within segging (NiMH) distance of where I live. But I need a car to get to the nearest Segway dealership.

[RAG1247]

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

Good point Steve ... outside of TerryP and Scoghill, both of whom have written here about their experiences (and reported good range), I'm hard-pressed to think of any other "old timers" who've bought the new machines. But there have to be more, and I'm anxious to hear the stories and impressions about the new batteries. Aside from making the commute to work and back home a bit more stress-free, are they changing the way that people actually use their Segs? Are there new applications for the Seg made possible by the new batteries? This is the stuff I'm waiting to hear.

I'd also like to know what the hold-up is with Valence Technologies and these Saphion batteries. This has been in development how many years now, and they're not able to produce sufficient product to satisfy demand halfway through peak season after the product's official release? Perhaps they learned a lesson from Axicon ... not to commit to producing any given number of units for a company that isn't living up to expectations. They're probably playing it smart.





Brooster




Broo Hello

I've got 2 I180's with Li-on - haven't really had a chance to totally test out range, but on trips that I did with the I167 and I170 there is no question that the battery gauge doesn't drop as much - not very technical, but I'll get there. i think in many ways the li-on gives you a good buffer which you didn't always have if were going 6 miles out and 6 miles back.


Richard
Ft. Lauderdale

If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you [img=right]http://www.sonyguy.com/rageagle.jpg[/img=right]

[Socrates]

Good morning,

above it is said that the HT consumes 0.7 KWhr per full charge.
1 KWh costs 11.7979 cents (€-cents), which is 8.28 c€ per charge, which is at today's exchange rate 9.99 c$. This is the cost in my city in Austria.

For everybody who wants to do math exercises: The i170 costs 7243.40 $, 1 liter Diesel costs 1.088 $, 1 liter gasoline (cheapest, 95 octane) costs 1.233 $, all prices of today.

Well, electricity is cheap here, but Segways and fuel.... ("I have a dream!")

Alexander

[X-man]

Broo,
I haven't had any adverse remarks within the community in which I now reside. Being a retirement type place where there aren't that many kids around probably has a lot to do with it. The people here show a great interest in the machine.
It may also have to do with the fact that the entire population of this little area, on the outskirts of St. George, has a population less than the Chicago highrise from which I moved.
The majority of people here get around in golf carts when moving locally from place to place. I had a gentleman challenge me to a race yesterday and I told him I'd race him two blocks, one block up and the other block back to where we started. He knew I could turn around quicker and backed down.



Bob.

Where goeth I, goeth my Segway.

[yosgof]

quote:Originally posted by X-man

Broo,
I haven't had any adverse remarks within the community in which I now reside. Being a retirement type place where there aren't that many kids around probably has a lot to do with it. The people here show a great interest in the machine.
It may also have to do with the fact that the entire population of this little area, on the outskirts of St. George, has a population less than the Chicago highrise from which I moved.
The majority of people here get around in golf carts when moving locally from place to place. I had a gentleman challenge me to a race yesterday and I told him I'd race him two blocks, one block up and the other block back to where we started. He knew I could turn around quicker and backed down.



Bob.

Where goeth I, goeth my Segway.


X-man, street racing like a punk, at your age and well earned respect? :D:D:D

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg