I'm not getting crazy

[florin]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday I had the oppertunity to go gliding with Johnny, he is the Segway Dealer for Sweden.

The nice thing is that I could choose on which model I wanted to glide. Since I have always been gliding around on a I167, I thought I would be nice to go gliding on a red I180 (NIMH batteries). Johnny decided to glide on his longly trusted I167.

We started with going up hill riding to get out of the parking garage. I got the impression that the I167 was just a little bit faster then the I180 when gliding up the hill. Then when we finally got to some free space where we could go full speed, it looked again that the I167 was a bit faster then the I180.

It was a long time ago that I had been gliding on a red key, so I assumed that I was just getting crazy, what could it be otherwise, both models have the same type of batteries, same top speed, etc., so it just had to be me, so I was quit sure that I was getting crazy.

But after going up another hill in the park, I finally had it, I could stand the torture any longer, I asked Johnny if he noticed it too. To be sure we switched segways and I want back down the hill and back up again, just to make sure if it was really me getting crazy or something else.

I can ensure you that I'm not getting crazy, there is really a difference in the way that they glide. We started thinking on what it could be.

Theoreticly the spec's are the same, as far as I know at least, the only difference that I know are the gearboxes and the software version. Johnny is already gliding on the I167 for more then a year and has given something like 2000 demos on it, the I180 on the otherhand is still quit new, hasn't been used that much.

Now my question for all of you out there: What can make the difference in the speed and the acceleration? Is it just the fact that the I180 is still quit new? or is it the gearboxes or the software?

Now I'm not sure anymore on what to buy (if they ever get legal in the Netherlands). Should I go for the I180 or for the good old I167/I170 (if I can still find one at our dealer by that time). I like the red color of the I180, the silver things aren't really that bad after all, but it's just the speed/acceleration issue that starts to concern me.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[KSagal]

What about the tires?

If the thread pattern was the same, how about the inflation...

Take for example, the factory standard tires. I don't use mine anymore, but they have a fairly round profile. I am sure that they flatten out a bit at the road with the weight of rider and seg.

If you had two segs, and one was at 13 pounds of air pressure, and the other was at 18 pounds of air, I would think this might make a slight difference in speed and range...

We usually think of a soft tire as causing more resistance on the road, and therefore less range. But with more resistance, also comes a slightly smaller diameter on the working tire.

The speed difference would be only a fraction of a mile per hour, but maybe enough to see in a side to side race....

Just my first thought...

The other possibility is that Florin is indeed going crazy. This may be true, but does not rule out my first theory... Yuk Yuk...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[gbrandwood]

I thought Doug said, during the last live chat, that v14 software would help the Seg when hill climbing? If so, a v14 Seg should do better than a v12 i167... yes? Florin's findings are inconsistent with this so I wonder what it can be?

How big was the difference, Florin?


-

To segue, or not to segue, that is the question.

[yosgof]

From another posting I remember that Florin is a bit on the heavy side...

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[terryp]

If the i180 hasn't been charged many times yet, the batteries probably haven't reached their peak. Their performance improves with each charge up to maybe a dozen charges.

I think what Doug said was that we'd see an improvement in hill climbing ability with the lithiums (and believe me, you will).

Even with the variables mentioned - battery age and tire pressure, if the difference was hardly noticeable, it's not enough to worry about, IMO.

I'd go with the i180, and get the color you want. And if you can, get one with lithiums. They blow the NiMHs out of the water.

Segway - What's holding you up?

[florin]

Good point Karl, I haven't thought about the tires at all, when I have a chance I will check it out.

It can very well be that they have improved the hill climbing in V14, but I don't know in which way, I would say that the I180 takes the hill a bit smoother, but also a lit slower. I also read onces that you will get the stickshake earlier with V14 (in general, not only with hill climbing), before you get the stickshake, the handlebar will push you back a little bit, I asume that this will also happen then a bit earlier.

I didn't do any time measurements, but I would say that it took me a few seconds more to get on top of the ramp/hill/(you know what I mean), just for getting one floor up.

That's absolutly true Yossi, I also assumed that this would be the main cause, but in the park we switched from segway, I went back off the hill and drove up the hill again, just to see it had anything to do with my weight. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference, the I167 seems to be a bit faster with everything. Also on the flat areas the difference is very well noticable. First when I was on the I180, Johnny had to wait every now and then so I could catch up with him, when I was on the I167, I had to wait for Johnny.

Terryp, that's the only thing that Johhny and I could come up with too, but I didn't expect the difference would be that noticable. I was already thinking about the lithium batteries.

Well guys, thanks so far for the ideas and feedback, if more of you have ideas, please let me know.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[yosgof]

This is very interesting. Has anybody benchmarked identical HT? There might be some performance variance on identical machines as well.

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[Socrates]

I measured the tire circumference at different pressures.
My weight is 75kg.
At 10 psi I go 140cm (55.12in) per wheel rotation.
At 18 psi I go 145cm (57.09in) per wheel rotation.

Maybe it was the tire pressure and the rider weight, both infuencing the tire circumference, that caused the i180 going slower.

Alexander

[KSagal]

Yossi,

The only dead on racing that I have ever done was at segfest 04. At one point in a fun afternoon, I took something (A photograph, as it came out of a poloroid camera) and took off. It was all in fun, and I was chased by about four or more other segs... I did not check, but I am sure that some were I167s, I170s, and maybe a P or two. I was on my E167.

I took off, and the pursuit was on. We were all laughing and leaning into the stick well harder than we should, and we all knew it...

I would say it lasted about a quarter mile. With remarked accuracy, we all ended at the same relative position as we started...

One persuer was behind me about 10 feet, the whole time. I did not pull farther away nor loose ground to him. He has relatively the same weight as me, but I have an e with more gear than his I.

I have also commented several times that anyone watching this event would have been confused. We were laughing and yelling at each other, and trying to run away or catch the other in relative slow motion. At any point, any of us could have gotten off the segs and run faster. I thought the scene was like something from an old woody allen movie...

Anyway, that was my own and only observation. That weekend, several people commented on several occations of how all segs seem to go the same speed, most of the time...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[florin]

Nice story Karl :D,

Personally I think that the difference had to do with the tire pressure and that the batteries might not have been in perfect condition since they were still quit new.

When I have a chance I will ask Johnny to check the tire pressure.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[yosgof]

Karl,

Michael Schumacher drives pretty much the same car as the rest of them yet somehow he gets there just a tiny bit faster ;)

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[KSagal]

Yossi,

I could not agree more. It is not what you drive but how you drive. Well, that's not it either. A yugo would not do well against a ferrari.

I guess it is how you drive what you drive...

On that same convention weekend, My friend Stu and I found a great sidewalk that connected two parts of the resort complex that we were on. This sidwalk was only a few hundred meters long, but swooped in and out of the heavy brush, and had a perfect amount of both sharp and wide turns, dips and rises, and exiting blind spots. Since it was a lightly used sidewalk to nowhere, opposing traffic was not an issue...

Stu and I just kept swooping up and back and would be taking any segger there to show them our find...

I cannot tell you how many times I would have someone follow me on this one way trail and have them not keep up, or send someone in, and have them at the half way point and catch them by the end...

Others, hard core racers, loved it. At any speed it was a nice trail. It did have a tendency to separate the men from the boys however...

For political correctness' sake, all the women gliders showed their mettle as well...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[SegwayBill]

A friend at Segway has told me once you get use to the 14.0, there is no going back, the machine feels more sophisticated.
My goal from day one of owning my machine has been to be the Mario Andretti of Segways. I practice slaloms, figure skating circles and improve my moves with my dance partners. This is my third season, my wife said I look more relaxed and my spins have gotten longer.
Early 10.0 is what I am still using, it is better then the 12.0 and my fiances won't allow for the upgrade for awhile. The super sticky V1 sale tires are amazing when pulling hard spins with skate patners. Lower tire pressure has made a more comfortable ride 12-13 psi has improved performace.

Bill