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Special Needs, Mobility and Disabled Use Information and discussion for those with special needs interested in the Segway.

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Old 10-15-2014, 01:03 PM   #1
jgbackes
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Default I can no longer recommend a Segway as a Mobility Device!

RANT WARNING!

What other consumer transportation device costs $6,000 and has to be shipped back to the factory of origin for major repairs? Snowmobile? Nope! Jetski? Nope! Moped? Nope! Power wheelchair? NOPE!

The "world class service" bulls%$# that Segway touted when they released the I2-SE - world class... right! Give me a BREAK! World class service does not mean "If you live anywhere in the world, you have to send it back to the factory for chassis repair"

A disabled person can't depend on a Segway as a mobility device. Keep a "real" wheel chair around because if you have a chassis fault your "legs" need a trip back to the factory for TWO F&^%$#@ MONTHS.

For years, companies that manufacture complex equipment have relied on 3rd parties for repairs. It's about time for Segway to step up and have a company like GE or The Geek Squad perform on-site or carry-in repair.

Two controller boards, one BSA, two motors, two transmissions, one power-supply, one radio board, and one leanstear assembly. That's it. A simple flowchart and have a service company swap out the parts.

Segway dealers already swap out tires, wheels, elastomeric couplers, grips, fenders, footpads and batteries. There is some process in place for repairing a small portion of the Segway. As I recall the radio board problem with the early i2s was performed by dealers. First generation Segways could have their firmware upgraded by plugging the Segway into a specially configured laptop.

Just as a reality check I typed "Wheelchair Repair" into Google Search:
Power Wheelchair Repair - Nationwide Service - Precision ...
http://www.precisionrepairnetwork.co...hair-repair.ht...
We specialize in power wheelchair repair at Precision Repair Network, and offer nationwide service in the 48 contiguous states.

Wheelchair and Scooter Repair- Your Repair Solution
www.wsrsolutions.com/
Wheelchair and Scooter Repair (WSR) is a nationally accredited repair ... We specialize in in-home power wheelchair and scooter repair and have WSR service ...
‎Contact Us - ‎FAQ - ‎Through Medicare - ‎What We Do

SpinLife Nationwide Service: We Repair Power Chairs ...
https://www.spinlife.com/service/
SpinLife can diagnose or repair your scooter, power chair, lift chair, patient lift, ... SpinLife.com - Experts in wheelchairs, mobility scooters, lift chairs, and more

Wheelchair Maintenance - Power Wheelchair Repair ...
www.hhdepot.com/products/parts-service/
Home Health Depot provides power wheelchair repair, wheelchair maintenance, and wheelchair parts throughout the Midwest including Indianapolis and ...

Medicare Policies Restricting Power Wheelchair Repairs ...
https://www.aahomecare.org/.../medic...ing-power-whee...
Medicare Policies Restricting Power Wheelchair Repairs Leave Vulnerable Beneficiaries with Limited Mobility. Fri, July 26, 2013. Washington, D.C.. For years ...

Service & Repair | Numotion
http://www.numotion.com/products-ser...service-repair
Products & Services · Complex Power Wheelchairs · Manual Wheelchairs ... Frequently needed service and repairs include replacement of batteries, tires, arm ...

Parts and Repair - Hometown Medical Supplies
www.hometown-medical.com/services/repair.html
... technicians provide replacement parts, service and repair of power mobility equipment including power lift chairs, power wheelchairs, power mobility scooters, ...
It seems to me that any company that can repair a power wheelchair can repair a Segway. "Parts is Parts"

Last argument. Eco-Friendly. How eco-friendly is it to send the entire unit back to the factory for repair?

Segway either decides to make their products repairable or people will stop buying them... Oh wait...

But then again, I could be wrong.

jeff
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Old 10-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #2
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Easy Jeff! While I certainly feel for those who have had to wait for Inc. to fix their segs I believe it will be supported by this community that Segway's are very well made machines.

For me I own 12 X2's and 2 XT's. The first X2 I bought was used and needed repair as soon as it arrived. I believe I was without that one for about 4 weeks. Since then (fall of 2010) I have had no trouble with it.

One of my XT's had a bad motor so I took it to Segway of Central Florida two winters ago and he had it up and running in a couple of days. Been running fine for a year and a half. And lastly I sent another of my X2's to Dave at Central Florida this past summer and he had it back to me in 2 weeks!

That's it. Three problems with 14 segs in about 4 years. I give off-road Segway tours through the woods of northern Wisconsin. Several of my machines have nearly 3500 rugged miles on them and are still going strong.

I do not wish to minimize those who have the corporate horror stories. But keep it in perspective. What machine do you not need to do some maintenance to periodically? I do virtually NOTHING to mine and they are working just fine.

There are options to Inc. Try Dave at Central Florida. Try Jordan at Segway of Wisconsin. I personally know that they have been trained and equipped with the latest software to repair in the field and I'm sure they are not the only ones. It cost me $90 to ship my seg from northern Wisconsin to Central Florida! That's not bad.

Curious to hear from Bob from Gettysburg. What is your break down/service history with your fleet?
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgbackes View Post
RANT WARNING!

What other consumer transportation device costs $6,000 and has to be shipped back to the factory of origin for major repairs? Snowmobile? Nope! Jetski? Nope! Moped? Nope! Power wheelchair? NOPE!
How true !
What a pity.
Such a beautiful product totally compromised by poor market presence / support.

Imagine what it was like being a remote international distributor, and explaining that situation to customers.
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:20 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by noalox View Post
Easy Jeff! While I certainly feel for those who have had to wait for Inc. to fix their segs I believe it will be supported by this community that Segway's are very well made machines.

For me I own 12 X2's and 2 XT's. The first X2 I bought was used and needed repair as soon as it arrived. I believe I was without that one for about 4 weeks. Since then (fall of 2010) I have had no trouble with it.

<snip>
I'm glad to know that a motor failure does not require a trip back to Segway. If your dealer has a system to upgrade the firmware on your i2/x2 that is the first time I have ever heard of that.

A motor failure does require the entire unit to be disassembled. The connectors for the motor have to be disconnected from inside the chassis. If your dealer is "trusted" by Segway enough to replace motors, they should trust them to replace the logic board and BSA as well. Because the matching codes for the infokey security are saved on the motherboard(s) dealers have to be able to program them when replaced.

My point still stands if you have a chassis (motherboard) failure it HAS to go back to Inc.

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Old 10-15-2014, 07:36 PM   #5
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Jeff, '

I wish I could offer a valid argument to your statements, but I cannot.

I would also offer that while a pain in the neck (or lower) service of a faulty segway is not that huge an issue, to the population of segways as a whole.

To my knowledge, there are still just a few service people at segway. Maybe too few, but also just a few. That means a very small percentage need their attention, and that means that while a broken segway may be a big hurtle for that owner, it is not something experienced by many.

also, while those who use segways as mobility devices, (of course we all use them as mobility devices) but rather those who use them to compensate for mobility impairments, would be well advised that service is a real hassle. That is true. But service is also a pretty uncommon occurrence. This separates segways from many other transportation devices out there which are mostly service intensive.

So I agree that segway's service plan is somewhat lacking, but so is a good Italian Restaurant lacking on the Moon. It is real, and a real problem if you are there, and hungry, but most of us will not really see that problem in our every day lives.

My example is extreme. For that I am sorry. But my point remains that regardless of how bad segway service seems to the person with the broken segway, that person is still going to be lonely.
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Old 10-15-2014, 09:01 PM   #6
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The part that most totally ignore....

When being disabled and its your life line you just don't get it..

Nor from most responses you don't care! Not like its cheap to have a backup!!!
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:46 AM   #7
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Easy Jeff! While I certainly feel for those who have had to wait for Inc. to fix their segs I believe it will be supported by this community that Segway's are very well made machines.

<snip>
I currently have 2 x2, 2 i2 and 2 p133. I have in the past had 3 i180s, 1 XT, 1 e-167 and 4 i2s.

Pretty sure that's 15 segways.

I've had 2 that had to go back to the mothership for repair. If my math is right that's 12.5% failure rate. I have probably put 800 - 2000 miles on each unit. Some Segways where sold, some were traded on new models, some were stolen and replaced.

The Segway i2 that started this entire RANT was one of the brand new units I got back in February. I had to transfer my SegSaddle to a backup unit and now I have to transfer it back to the repaired one.

I love my Segways and I will continue to ride and enjoy them, I am very fortunate that I have the financial resources to afford backups, but until Segway can improve their turn around time I just can't in good faith recommend them to anyone as "mission critical".

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Old 10-16-2014, 10:19 AM   #8
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Jeff, you started this thread by implying that all repairs take 2 months and have to be returned to Bedford. That is simply not true. Can it take that long? Well a couple of people have shared that it has. But my experience was not that extreme. Karl shared that his did not. The longest I was without a machine was 4 weeks.

With the 2 that you had to send back to Inc. did it take 2 months for each? Could the dealer involved have had anything to do with the time?

Are you serious that you are now telling people that they are better off in their wheelchairs than take a chance that a Segway may breakdown? And you believe the data from the threads on this chat site support that?

I am really interested in hearing from Lily and Jim to see if they agree.
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:43 PM   #9
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Jeff, you started this thread by implying that all repairs take 2 months and have to be returned to Bedford. That is simply not true. Can it take that long? Well a couple of people have shared that it has. But my experience was not that extreme. Karl shared that his did not. The longest I was without a machine was 4 weeks.

With the 2 that you had to send back to Inc. did it take 2 months for each? Could the dealer involved have had anything to do with the time?

Are you serious that you are now telling people that they are better off in their wheelchairs than take a chance that a Segway may breakdown? And you believe the data from the threads on this chat site support that?

I am really interested in hearing from Lily and Jim to see if they agree.
Well. I'm not really the best person to answer that.
1. I haven't had to have any repairs made. I live in a very small town in the middle of the country and do not commute, but I have almost a thousand miles on it. If it needed that kind of repairs, I'd be sorely tempted to take it directly to the factory as an excuse to visit that part of the country!
2. I am not totally dependent on it. But believe me, I would miss it sorely. I do have a 167 for flying, but use it as little as possible because I hate it!. The i2 is so much easier and intuitive. I could always stay home and then drive my car...

Recommend it? Absolutely! But the degree of dependence on it would have to make this an individual decision.
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Old 10-16-2014, 08:34 PM   #10
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Lily,

I believe you are a better example than you think, but it depends on what you want to be an example of...

My point was that while it is clearly very inconvenient for some people to get their segways repairs, according to the stories here, it is not as common as some would make it seem.

I fully believe Jeff and all that he has said, but I suspect that his 12.5% example is not reflective of the entire segway population.

I have been to the factory, and have personally seen the repair area and facility. Now, I will not represent myself as currently knowledgeable of Segway Inc, nor even current of the repair facility or procedures. I was last there several years ago.

But I did go the factory several times over several years, ending a few years ago. (I have not been there for at least 3 or 4 years).

Every time I went to the factory, there were just a few people in the service department, and just a few work stations. I will not say there were 2 or 4 people, but I did meet a technician one time who told me the other tech is 'so and so', making me think there were two at that point. Another visit I spent some time there, and saw only 3 or 4 work benches, but do not know how many people used them, or if there were benches for specific faults, or specific technicians, or what...

All this goes to say that I concur with other posts that indicate the service department is very small at segway corporate.

This is a two fold observation. Clearly some who post here feel there should be more people in service, on the presumption that more people will result in less time for service of any particular machine. That may be so.

The other side of that coin however, is that if there are just 2, or 4, or 6 technicians working on the repair of segways, that indicates that not too many come in for repair as a percentage of the total segway population.

This does not make it more pleasant if your machine fails and needs to be repaired under the system that some here have explained, but it does also mean that the likelihood of this happening to you is also lessened.

Previous examples of other service items, copiers, cars, etc are bad examples, because every car that is on the road requires service to continue running. Every copier requires regular maintenance to continue running. These maintenance requirements are built in. On top of all that, there are also failures of these units. But the service systems are in existence because of the the former, not the latter.

Many segways that have been sold have never been in for service. I do not know how many have been sold, nor how many have been serviced. I do not pretend to know. But it just does not seem to me that 12% all those sold could have come back for service and been serviced by just 2, or 4, or even 6 people. Maybe those numbers are accurate, but I do not think anyone here really knows, and out of context suggestions may not be as accurate as some may feel.

Don't get me wrong. There is a problem in service. I agree. I just do not think it is as big a problem for the segway society as some whom have been thru this ringer may feel it is. On the individual basis, if your segway breaks, you may be in for an unhappy time. But just owning a segway does not automatically put you in this unhappy group.

At least this is how I see it.
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