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Old 05-29-2016, 06:28 PM   #1
AccuXperT
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Default My battery modification: Successful operation of a Segway with 94.4 V

Many years ago I purchased an i180 with deeply discharged Li-Ion-batteries. Rather than simply new batteries to buy I opened the defective batteries and made me detail the electronics (BMS) and the lithium cells used familiar. I have measured every detail and found that I can also use alternative types instead of the original VALENCE cells.

Below I describe how I operate the Segway with 94.4 Vdc without an error message!

As part of this development work I have increased by incorporation of a higher number of cells the sum voltage. The aim was to find out what can be operated with maximum number of cells of the Segway, to achieve a gain in range. The basic idea is sinking of the motor current by a higher battery-voltage, whereby the overall efficiency increases and the possible range becomes larger.
At this time was the condition that all of the cells must fit into the battery case and the BMS-electronics and the Segway-Base accept this change.

For this it must be mentioned that the regularly usable voltage range of the Li-Ion-battery is about 60V to 82V. In order to realize a higher voltage, the BMS electronics must be modified in some places. These changes I have made in my e-lab, this maybe I'll discuss later in more detail on it.

So I was able to realize battery voltages above 82V, the Gen1 then proceeds without error but at 5 km/h reduced with neutral face, until as the voltage at the battery terminals is again below 82V.

The (converted) BMS has seen thanks to automatically switchable voltage minimizer only 80V - not the fully 94,4V. Unfortunately, the Gen1 Base has the dizziness noticed (battery-terminal voltage to high), the Segway but went anyway at 5 km/h with Neutral face.

The possible reason that the (Gen1-) Base has ever accepted the high voltage of 94,4V, could lie in the fact that the internal ADC of the base is already running on the top converter limit, because the ADC was not dimensioned for such high voltages.
Incidentally: A original battery with indeed more than 94V terminal voltage is likely to be short of the smoke ...

The range of the i180, incidentally, was even higher, estimated (never fully tested) than 65 km ...!

Conclusion: I run my own batteries, which I have developed even for several years. These batteries run with me stable on an i180 (V14.1) and an XT (V14.2). Although over 82V to operate goes but does not make sense, because the Segway ride at 5 km/h limited with the neutral face. A reasonable operating with more than 82V will therefore unfortunately not prevail.

-> Photos from the successful test run with 94,4V :

Akku-Umbau beim i180, Fluke-DVM zeigt 94,4V am Segway-Akku, kleines Download.jpg

Akku-Umbau beim i180, Wattmeter zeigt 94,32V - Kleines Download.jpg

-> Here the video for the successful test run with battery overvoltage: Test drive in the study with "only" 94,4V. With fully charged cells, the battery terminal voltage would be gigantic 97,0V - that was me then but a little too much for the i180 ...
(the sound is unfortunately in German but the description of the video is in 2 languages)​​ :




Safety Notice: Modification, reconstruction and operation of alternative Segway-batteries require some background knowledge, so that the benefit is set also in the longer term. The above presented developments I have done for me and does not represent a recommendation to imitate. High voltages and CMOS electronics require some knowledge and the user should absolutely know what he is doing here.
Safety for man and machine and the Segway integrity should be the top priority !
.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:51 PM   #2
dorrington
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Hi,

I am in the process of remanufacturing the nimh bms boards.

on my journey I have had my i180 running from lead acid batteries and my own cpu board giving the base the correct data.

so it is possible to run old segway on any battery! as long as voltage is correct.

Great work on the battery modifications!

regards

Ian
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:32 PM   #3
AccuXperT
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Default Battery-Modification on Gen1

Yes exactly!

My report of the operation a Segway with 94,4V should show that it works! I have my i180 even operated only with a 70V power supply, completely WITHOUT batteries / cells. However, with Li-ion PCBs the Rev. AC and AF.
I've never tested the older NiMH-PCB but I think that this can be manipulated more easily.
Maybe the security questions are not as sharp, such as the scanning of the individual cells / cluster like the Li-Ion BMS does.

dorrington, I wish you continued success!

If you want you can post a few pictures here of your battery-conversion - would be happy ...
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Old 06-13-2016, 03:55 PM   #4
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I think it's to much voltage
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Old 06-22-2016, 09:20 PM   #5
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Default Maximum Battery-Voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalow View Post
I think it's to much voltage
Absolute!

I wanted only to show what the Gen1 Segway at maximum voltage accepted - it is borderline.
About 82V battery voltage the Gen1-Segway reduces the speed to 5 km/h. So driving course makes no fun ... Therefore voltages above 82V are at battery self-construction projects to avoid. Even when it comes (and an even greater range produced) it does not make sense to go over 82V.

Whoever builds his battery itself should consider these 82V-Limit.
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:45 PM   #6
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After many long hours.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bms.jpg (18.9 KB, 167 views)
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #7
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The story so far....

https://youtu.be/7C1JEm17GZc

Regards

Ian
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Old 11-08-2016, 06:39 PM   #8
Isidore
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Great work the pair of you! The elephant in the room for Segway running costs has always been the cost of batteries. A full understanding of how they work is the first step in solving this.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isidore View Post
Great work the pair of you! The elephant in the room for Segway running costs has always been the cost of batteries. A full understanding of how they work is the first step in solving this.
If battery packs (that have been cared for) are expected to last about 8 years with regular use, I guess it would be about $200/year. Not horrible but not cheap, either. I'm guessing the cost of the electricity used for the life span would be less than that. Between batteries and the cost of the machine, Segways aren't the cheapest vehicles out there. Still, I think their quality and versatility makes them worth every penny. By far and away the favorite of my vehicles.
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:10 PM   #10
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Ions82,

I totally agree, however, living in the UK makes it very hard to get cost effective batteries, even more so when they are twice the price I paid for the Segway itself...😊

Thank you for looking,

Ian
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