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Old 08-25-2017, 04:33 AM   #11
i2Macman
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Exclamation Re-testing of situation with infokeys, speed limiting and battery recharge:

1. batteries both recharged overnight resulting in two blinking green lights;

2. Test gliding around home courtyard;

3. Accelerating rapidly from 0-9 km/h, some stationary rocking to and fro, figure 8s; etc;

4. Duration 40mins; distance traveled 2.5km;

5. Battery bars reduced from 8 to 2 during testing;

6. Ambient temperature during test was 10 deg C;

7. Alerts began around 3km/h as neutral face with ! In triangle. Alert disappeared around 3.5 and was able to accelerate to around 9km/h. Alerts continued to appear at times during rapid accelerations but did not lead to emergency shutdown as had occurred during the previous testing prior to initial post. Some brief stick pushback but was very brief;

8. Seg was returned to overnight charging with two bars remaining. Charging via a timer with 8hours off during cycle as usual;

9. Intend to retest tomorrow along a sidewalk;

10. Will look at swapping a known good set of batteries (if possible) to retest; and

11. Conclusions so far- Possible behaviour due to poor degraded battery power delivery - maybe dead cells and complicated by very low ambient temps during first testing but persisting during this test and there are cold start issues with infokeys and their having flat batteries too.

Your comments/criticisms on my testing strategy and conclusions are sought.
Thanks for your interest.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:21 AM   #12
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Thanks for the report.

Looking forward to the next report - and it's good that there has been some improvement.
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Old 08-25-2017, 02:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2Macman View Post
Conclusions so far- Possible behaviour due to poor degraded battery power delivery
If you lost 6 battery bars in just 2.5 km's, I agree it's probably the batteries. If you can borrow another set to test with you'll know for sure, one way or another

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Old 08-26-2017, 05:48 AM   #14
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Exclamation Further test results

Re-test: 26/08/2017
10:49am; 7deg C.

1. Batteries both blinking green
2. Info key reports full charge
3. On gliding at start-up got emergency shutdown with error c108.
4. Error: *C108 The Front CU Board reports*: The battery packs do not have sufficient charge to continue safe operation Charge the batteries.
5. Batteries have been swapped. Front battery was from the rear position.
6. Infokey shows 8bars i.e., fully charged batteries.
7. Left unit standing in balance mode for 30mins to raise temperature.
8. Resumed gliding with improved performance but still some neutral faces and ! In triangle. No more C108 errors.
9. Switched off unit, removed batteries and measured voltages at pins with digital multimeter.
10. Both batteries indicated 96 volts. Re-installed batteries.
11. Took the Segway to local tour operator where we swapped batteries at 1500hrs.
12. The “new” batteries” were thought to be fully charged but showed only two bars on my infokey.
13. Similar behaviour by Segway at around 3-4km/hr got neutral face and ! But it disappeared and reappeared during acceleration and decelerations 0-9km/hr
14. Swapped to another set of “good” batteries but again only two bars showing on Infokey and again similar behaviour by Segway.
15. Removed batteries.
16. Checked all batteries with digital volt meter. Good batteries from tour operators showed 82 volts; my batteries now showing 87 volts.
17. Re-installed my “suspected” faulty batteries. My Infokey still showed 8 bars. Behaviour still same.
18. Conclusions: tour ops good batteries not fully charged; my batteries showed 8 bars and are most likely OK; All batteries did not significantly change the Segway behaviour of neutral face and ! Warning. No emergency shut downs.
19. Wondering if it is now a communication problem between control board and infokey.
20. Intend to undertake long glide tomorrow.

No real resolution for this issue still.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:42 AM   #15
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Did you try your old batteries on one of the tour operators good Segways?
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:24 PM   #16
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If the batteries are known good,...

You might go through the machine and clean up all the chassis grounds and ground return paths. Corroded connections (due to the age of your machine) to the ground plane can give you floating grounds that throw off charging and battery level sensors. Take an eraser or piece of emery cloth to them and polish up all the attachment points.

I am not totally sure the batteries are good since they are acting like old batteries that are at the end of their life cycle. They can't handle an electrical load even though they show a full charge. Old batteries fail under load stress (motor draw) versus new. How did the tour operator's batteries act in the tour machine? Or how did your batteries act in the tour operator's machine.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:16 PM   #17
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Tour op batteries were from tour op workshop spare battery stock and not from a functioning machine. Tour op batteries not attached to a charger.

No functioning tour op machine available during my visit to workshop, therefore my batteries not installed on tour op machine, tour op batteries not used on tour op machine. Only tour op spares installed on my machine.

Question:

If Segway Li- batteries are said to be 73.6 volts, why do my "fully charged" batteries (8bars on infokey) show 96 volts on my digital multimeter; tour op batteries (two bars on info key) show 87 volts. My multimeter is not malfunctioning because it shows my auto batteries at 13.4 volts.
So why are these higher voltages being displayed? What am I missing here?
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2Macman View Post
If Segway Li- batteries are said to be 73.6 volts, why do my "fully charged" batteries (8bars on infokey) show 96 volts on my digital multimeter
I have seen this before.
There can be many failure modes of batteries.

Most common failure is a cell failure.

Less common is a control electronics failure.
If this happens, yes, you may see higher voltage, and could be due to overcharged cells by virtue of failed control electronics.

Probably no easy fix, if this is the case.
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:01 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i2Macman View Post
Question:

If Segway Li- batteries are said to be 73.6 volts, why do my "fully charged" batteries (8bars on infokey) show 96 volts on my digital multimeter; tour op batteries (two bars on info key) show 87 volts. My multimeter is not malfunctioning because it shows my auto batteries at 13.4 volts.
So why are these higher voltages being displayed? What am I missing here?
I suggest, as a check, that you do the same test with a different digital multimeter. There is a slim chance that your meter has a problem. [The measured voltage of the tour operator's batteries is troubling]
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Old 08-27-2017, 04:27 PM   #20
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All 7 of my Seg batteries read between 75 and 76 volts when they are 'full'

If your meter is good and yours read that high, I think the 'overcharged' explanation as to what happened to them is probably correct

But, that still doesn't explain why you had similar results when testing with those tour batteries, does it? - Is there any chance that the tour 'spares' were sitting on the shelf because they wouldn't power a Seg for enough miles to do a tour??

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