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Old 01-28-2013, 02:39 PM   #21
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Like most other threads, I can see good points on both sides of the main discussion in this one.

I don't personally enjoy fail compilations either for most of the same reasons as Karl, but I like the perspectives given by most of the others who posted and really appreciate the idea of using the negative in a positive way as some suggested(education).

Kendall69, your methods are drowning out anything useful you might be trying to convey. Since I imagine that isn't your goal, try a calm, thoughtful and factual approach maybe.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:40 PM   #22
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I think editing the video might take longer than I thought!

So I thought perhaps using something like TubeChop might work? No copyright issues that way. Here is my attempt at a draft page.

http://www.legalisesegways.co.uk/fails.html

It might be good to group the same types of fail clips together (e.g., hitting immovable objects - all grouped together with one description/advice)?
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrandwood View Post
I think editing the video might take longer than I thought!

So I thought perhaps using something like TubeChop might work? No copyright issues that way. Here is my attempt at a draft page.

http://www.legalisesegways.co.uk/fails.html

It might be good to group the same types of fail clips together (e.g., hitting immovable objects - all grouped together with one description/advice)?
I have the software (but limited time) for editing video if that will be of any help...
Yes, the grouping would be a good idea.

Limited time??? I just started an online class about online learning from Coursera. There are 40,000--yes you read that right--- people enrolled for this class from literally around the world. Fascinating and a bit of mass confusion....
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kendall69 View Post
GRAVE of DEAD SEGWAY INVENTOR
Stop right there. You have just demonstrated your total disregard for facts. The Segway's inventor is alive and well.

Please take your foul language, rudeness, and peddling of falsehoods elsewhere.

I am happy to engage people who disagree with me, but not people who are simply disagreeable.
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrandwood View Post
...
As I read the words pink elephant I visualised that - same for the red and white zebra. But that does not leave me thinking they exist. Do they?

Pictures, words, videos, actions... can all be powerful and persuasive, but that does not mean all pictures, words, videos and actions are persuasive - at least not for everyone...
You missed my point.

You did think of a pink elephant. You did think of a red and white zebra. Neither exist for real, yet you had those images in your head.

My point however, is that you did not even consider a grey elephant, did you? (Be honest)

You did not even consider a black and white zebra, did you?

That is my point. And, even if you did think of a proper elephant or zebra, these are very common images we can all come up with.

The general public however, has very little exposure to actual segways in the wild, we talk about that all the time. They have very little exposure to segways doing the right thing. (The grey elephant)

Because of all this, the only image that is quick to come to mind, are the video images that are offered up time and time again, like the ones offered in the discussed video.

That was my point.

If you only offer negative images, and do not offer nearly as many positive images, the minimally educated (on this topic) public will pull the images they have seen. Even if we depend on people who know very little about segway to determine in a vacuum that almost all the images they have seen about segways as not representative as to how segways act, it is a dicey proposition.

I know what I am speaking about. I taught skydiving for a dozen years. The segway is not the only thing on the planet that has people who have never experienced it making constant decisions about it. Who do you think could make a better assessment about anything, a person who has done it, or a person who has not?

I do not know if you have ever jumped from a plane, but I am sure you have heard many people who never have tell you all about it, how dangerous, and silly or negative it is. They ignore the fact that statistically, the argument could be made that it is more dangerous to drive to the airport than it is to jump from the plane.

Segways are not different. If we present only negative images, we will get negative impressions...

Maybe I should explain myself differently...

If you go to a skydiving site, a skydiving enthusiasts site, you will get testimonials about how much fun it is. You will get information about how it is more safe than people may think, and it needs to be carefully considered, but can be done thousands of times well and healthfully. You will not get collections of people having accidents.

Same here. For the most part, we have posts about how much fun segways are. We have posts about how well segways have helped people both with mobility, but also with fun and pleasure. All that is good. That is why I think that a collection of fails is out of effective context.

eJM said it directly. Before he bought his segway he saw lots of negative images, and had to decide to buy and try the segway ANYWAY. How many people are going to see all that and decide to do it anyway? I say far less than more.

It would be like a skydiving site selling the concept of skydiving by telling you that many people die, but you might not, so come and join us. That just does not make sense to me.

If I were that poster who bought his segway for himself, and his bride, and she knew nothing about it, wouldn't it be nice to have a site to bring her to that has positive images of segways? If he brought his bride to this site, and her first experience with images of this segway she knows nothing about was that video, would it be better or worse for her segway buying hubby?

I suspect that it would put him in the doghouse more than not.

There are lots of other places to go to see people trash and lie about segways. I prefer not here.

But don't get me wrong. I NEVER said it should not be here. All I said is that I do not appreciate it. This goes into the range of tolerating it is the same as endorsing it, in my mind. It is the same as when you said it should have subtitles, because it was misleading. For me, it is the same as having a lie on this forum go unchallenged. Many turn the other cheek, or ignore the lie. I choose to refute it. That is all.

I feel most of us generally agree that it is not representative of most segway experiences. Our difference is in how we deal with that.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:23 AM   #26
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My goodness, isn't there anyone that can close threads around here?
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
You missed my point.

You did think of a pink elephant. You did think of a red and white zebra. Neither exist for real, yet you had those images in your head.

My point however, is that you did not even consider a grey elephant, did you? (Be honest)

You did not even consider a black and white zebra, did you?

That is my point. And, even if you did think of a proper elephant or zebra, these are very common images we can all come up with.

The general public however, has very little exposure to actual segways in the wild, we talk about that all the time. They have very little exposure to segways doing the right thing. (The grey elephant)

Because of all this, the only image that is quick to come to mind, are the video images that are offered up time and time again, like the ones offered in the discussed video.

That was my point.

If you only offer negative images, and do not offer nearly as many positive images, the minimally educated (on this topic) public will pull the images they have seen. Even if we depend on people who know very little about segway to determine in a vacuum that almost all the images they have seen about segways as not representative as to how segways act, it is a dicey proposition.

I know what I am speaking about. I taught skydiving for a dozen years. The segway is not the only thing on the planet that has people who have never experienced it making constant decisions about it. Who do you think could make a better assessment about anything, a person who has done it, or a person who has not?

I do not know if you have ever jumped from a plane, but I am sure you have heard many people who never have tell you all about it, how dangerous, and silly or negative it is. They ignore the fact that statistically, the argument could be made that it is more dangerous to drive to the airport than it is to jump from the plane.

Segways are not different. If we present only negative images, we will get negative impressions...

Maybe I should explain myself differently...

If you go to a skydiving site, a skydiving enthusiasts site, you will get testimonials about how much fun it is. You will get information about how it is more safe than people may think, and it needs to be carefully considered, but can be done thousands of times well and healthfully. You will not get collections of people having accidents.

Same here. For the most part, we have posts about how much fun segways are. We have posts about how well segways have helped people both with mobility, but also with fun and pleasure. All that is good. That is why I think that a collection of fails is out of effective context.

eJM said it directly. Before he bought his segway he saw lots of negative images, and had to decide to buy and try the segway ANYWAY. How many people are going to see all that and decide to do it anyway? I say far less than more.

It would be like a skydiving site selling the concept of skydiving by telling you that many people die, but you might not, so come and join us. That just does not make sense to me.

If I were that poster who bought his segway for himself, and his bride, and she knew nothing about it, wouldn't it be nice to have a site to bring her to that has positive images of segways? If he brought his bride to this site, and her first experience with images of this segway she knows nothing about was that video, would it be better or worse for her segway buying hubby?

I suspect that it would put him in the doghouse more than not.

There are lots of other places to go to see people trash and lie about segways. I prefer not here.

But don't get me wrong. I NEVER said it should not be here. All I said is that I do not appreciate it. This goes into the range of tolerating it is the same as endorsing it, in my mind. It is the same as when you said it should have subtitles, because it was misleading. For me, it is the same as having a lie on this forum go unchallenged. Many turn the other cheek, or ignore the lie. I choose to refute it. That is all.

I feel most of us generally agree that it is not representative of most segway experiences. Our difference is in how we deal with that.



You,...you're talking about missig "my point"

Are you trying to change/improve the perception of every person/idiot on this planet or just those in this forum?

GOOD LUCK or maybe it's just GOOD GRIEF!!!


be safe
enjoy your glide

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Old 01-29-2013, 08:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob yarbrough View Post
You,...you're talking about missig "my point"

Are you trying to change/improve the perception of every person/idiot on this planet or just those in this forum?

GOOD LUCK or maybe it's just GOOD GRIEF!!!


be safe
enjoy your glide

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy
Bob,

You are right, I am trying to change the perception of too many, but that is my choice. I'll settle for every person/idiot in the United States to start with.

And as you and others have said, I am bucking a big tide.

I do not take this as serious as it may seem when I am trying to explain myself, but I was trying to express my point.

Thanks for bringing the video to this forum, as several have enjoyed it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:24 AM   #29
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my Goodness, Isn't There Anyone That Can Close Threads Around Here?
Agreed!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jgbackes View Post
My goodness, isn't there anyone that can close threads around here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTOBATTERY View Post
Agreed!!!!!
I would agree that certain parts of this thread could do with being removed but why close off the whole thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
You missed my point.

You did think of a pink elephant. You did think of a red and white zebra. Neither exist for real, yet you had those images in your head.

My point however, is that you did not even consider a grey elephant, did you? (Be honest)

You did not even consider a black and white zebra, did you?

That is my point. And, even if you did think of a proper elephant or zebra, these are very common images we can all come up with.
Maybe I did. But it doesn't mean I would agree with it when I found it.

I just think that it is not as simple as you make out. You appear to be assuming that people will make the leap that you describe. Some might, some might not. For marketing to be effective you are normally bombarded with a message, carefully and cleverly designed to appear to certain needs, fears or emotions. These random fail videos, no matter what the subject, do not make me think the devices are not safe. I think there are risks associated with them - and being stupid on them or obviously not using them correctly increases those risks. But I can't see a carefully planned strategy of anti-Segway marketing material in these videos. Or, to be more precise, no more a coordinated attack on Segways than any other time of subject matter covered in other fail videos.

This is a Segway forum for enthusiasts and interested people. I don't want there to be lots of negativity about Segways in the forums but I expect a little reality. Some good aspects, some bad aspects - some funny and creative aspects. We can't pretend or shy away from the fact that sometimes riders will get it wrong and fall. We are not selling Segways here. We are talking about everything Segway related. Should we hide their weaknesses or rather discuss them and come up with ways to get around them - or, in the case of Segway fails, suggest ways to avoid Segway fails? You say you like to refute "lies" so why would you not want them listed here so you can confront them?

You've made it clear you do not appreciate the video being here. Personally, as a Segway fan, I did enjoy seeing the video. I got a few laughs out of it. Most of which I'd seen before. This forum should contain EVERYTHING about Segways, the good and the bad and the funny.

And do you know what people used to say to me about Segways, when I used to do my Segway tours? They used to ask whether it was possible to fall off them! I made it very clear that indeed it is very possible to fall off them - but the chances are they won't if they listen to what I would tell them. A bit of reality did them good.
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