MTO--Jared, please help.

rook2218joe · 06-16-2009, 09:26 PM

Jared,

Regarding the shipment of Li-ion batteries. I've seen some of your posts previously, and we exchanged a few PM's while you and your family were at Disney World. Of course it has to do with my "never ending story" with ebattery/batteryrefill.

I got some replacement batteries from them last week for the original order that I made in October (Arrived in December). Again it appears that these batteries were shipped without any kind of "hazardous material" certification on the package.

I've seen you mention something about a $10,000 fine for such activity. A couple of questions:

1. Is there a fine?
2. Who do I report it to?
3. How do I report it to the proper agency?
4. Do you have any "clout/relationswhip" with anyone in this agency?
5. Are you interested in persueing this matter with me?

If you'd prefer, PM me on this site or use the email I sent you some time ago.

If you don't mind responding in the "public arena" of this web site I am willing to post my OPINIONS of the way ebattery is conducting their business. But I also understand that you, and your company, might have to consider liability issues with a competitor.

I've still got the box ebattery/batteryrefill sent via FedEX last week. It is, from my inspection, completely devoid of any "haz. mat. certification".

As I write this post, I still have plenty of issues with ebattery, but there is also the matter of everbody playing on a level field...if they are not following shipping regulations, they should be instructed and then fined if they continue to "skirt" the legal requirements.

I await you comments.

wwhopper · 06-16-2009, 10:50 PM

Jared is a Segway dealer

Civicsman · 06-16-2009, 11:49 PM

The US Department of Transportation is the controlling agency in this matter, I believe.

I support the need for everyone to follow the rules, but it's just asking for trouble for a third party to get directly involved in pursuing a complaint, especially a third party that is a competitor of the alleged perpetrator.

BTW, the OP would seem to be a violation of Florin's interpretation of the Terms of Service, specifically:
"- don't harm anybody and/or their business (including Inc.'s)".

I don't interpret the intent of the TOS the same way as Florin, and I questioned him about whether complaints like the OP are allowable under his interpretation. This seems like a good opportunity for some clarification. Whether it's correct or incorrect, this original post can only have a negative affect on ebattery/batteryrefill's business.

So is the original post allowable, or not?

DarthSegVator · 06-17-2009, 09:04 AM

Reporting a problem with a dealer/supplier publicly can have many motivations. Some to warn others and some for leverage or revenge.

Stating factual reasons for not be satisfied seems to fall in the first catagory, although they can be subjective and often unverifiable. Someones perception of value/service can vary greatly from another. Some tell only portions of the situation and leave out others to support their position.

What will getting the supplier in trouble with the government do to improve the situation? This seems to fall in the second catagory.

If everything worked out fine with this aftermarket supplier, would you still be looking to report them to the authorities?

If not, you shouldn't do it now.

KSagal · 06-17-2009, 09:52 AM

There is a mechanical failure in a complaint to the government of this sort as well...

Most agencies would not be willing to take the word on one party over the other, and in the case of an open box, and some content that is not still in that box, this may not be valid...

I would suspect that if this was a complaint due to a real fear for safety, which is why these regulations exist, then the more appropriate plan of action would be to refuse the package or keep it in tact and bring it still sealed to the government agency in question... Perhaps it could be left on the porch or where ever it was first discovered to have arrived without appropriate protections, and a government agency could be called for help...

If you really feel there was a breach of your safety, I don't think you need to do this research. Simply call 911, and a safety officer from your town will know how to provide adequate safety for you or they will know the path to get it to you...

I know of a person who had a suspicious substance arrive in their house via the mail, they called 911, and the fire department's has-mat team showed up to deal with it...

Still, I think a complaint to the BBB or some other such organization may be more in line than to involve safety personnel. (Especially since we all know that the chemistry of these particular batteries, if they are using the right ones, leave a very tiny window for the danger that the regulations about shipping are in place for... Those regulations, and the parallel ones about having these particular batteries on airplanes are outdated and should be more reflective of real exposures)

MTOBATTERY · 06-17-2009, 12:01 PM

If you would like to contact DOT the phone number we have on file is 1-866-377-8642.

One thing I would like to point out is that since you shipped these batteries to them you will be implimenting yourself for the exact same violation unless you shipped them properly. We have been fined by DOT and yes the fines/consequences are very real. Our violations were not intentional but rather due to changes in regulations which we were not aware of.

If you would like to discuss DOT and how it works more I would be happy to talk with you but I cannot allow myself or anyone from my company to direct you on how you should proceed.

If the batteries are being shipped without hazmat it is wrong and is indeed a reportable violation. Make sure you consider all facts and angles on this before contacting DOT. Once you call you cannot turn back.

Civicsman · 06-17-2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Simply call 911, and a safety officer from your town will know how to provide adequate safety for you or they will know the path to get it to you...

In most communities, 911 is for emergencies, which is not the case when one has a box of known contents that is simply not properly marked. If you think your community's safety officer will know anything whatsoever about how LIons should be marked, call them on the non-emergency line.

Another thought... Is there any reason to believe that any particular battery reloader is using Valence Technology cells? Valence refers to their technology as "lithium iron magnesium phosphate". Batteryrefill.com simply says "lithium phosphate" and claims 20% more capacity than the OEM batteries. Are these the "right" batteries that Karl refers to, or something else.

RICHSYAMAHA · 06-17-2009, 04:01 PM

Shame On You For Being So Mean

rook2218joe · 06-17-2009, 07:47 PM

This battle started in October and it still continues. I have stated my opionion...by the way, I am not being mean. I shipped using a Haz. Mat. Certificate as supplied by an authorized agent...no self indictment!

I wouldn't use them again...you can do as you please.

Their email to me today, June 17th was a "back breaking straw"...all I wanted was my old battery back as they promised.

My lawyer DID MENTION to me that based on his research this could go "Class Action"...much like Disney. And yet, some Segway owners don't believe that Segways should be allowed at Disney World.

This is my opinion. Their email is attached entitled "ebattery wants "TRUTH" post is available for your viewing.

This is a really LONG story and I won't bother you with the details that I have left off.

I remember hearing about "one man doing nothing" about a perceived wrong.

rook2218joe · 06-17-2009, 08:32 PM

Now that I'm back from my evening glide some personal responses.

How can you be so apathetic? Wrong is wrong!

06-16-2009, 09:26 PM	#1
rook2218joe Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 189	MTO--Jared, please help. Jared, Regarding the shipment of Li-ion batteries. I've seen some of your posts previously, and we exchanged a few PM's while you and your family were at Disney World. Of course it has to do with my "never ending story" with ebattery/batteryrefill. I got some replacement batteries from them last week for the original order that I made in October (Arrived in December). Again it appears that these batteries were shipped without any kind of "hazardous material" certification on the package. I've seen you mention something about a $10,000 fine for such activity. A couple of questions: 1. Is there a fine? 2. Who do I report it to? 3. How do I report it to the proper agency? 4. Do you have any "clout/relationswhip" with anyone in this agency? 5. Are you interested in persueing this matter with me? If you'd prefer, PM me on this site or use the email I sent you some time ago. If you don't mind responding in the "public arena" of this web site I am willing to post my OPINIONS of the way ebattery is conducting their business. But I also understand that you, and your company, might have to consider liability issues with a competitor. I've still got the box ebattery/batteryrefill sent via FedEX last week. It is, from my inspection, completely devoid of any "haz. mat. certification". As I write this post, I still have plenty of issues with ebattery, but there is also the matter of everbody playing on a level field...if they are not following shipping regulations, they should be instructed and then fined if they continue to "skirt" the legal requirements. I await you comments.

06-16-2009, 10:50 PM	#2
wwhopper Advanced Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Washington, DC, USA. Posts: 4,894	MTO is Jason Jared is a Segway dealer __________________ Will W Hopper DCSEG Washington, DC, U.S.A.

06-17-2009, 09:52 AM	#5
KSagal Glides a lot, talks more... Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Pelham, NH, USA. Posts: 10,356	There is a mechanical failure in a complaint to the government of this sort as well... Most agencies would not be willing to take the word on one party over the other, and in the case of an open box, and some content that is not still in that box, this may not be valid... I would suspect that if this was a complaint due to a real fear for safety, which is why these regulations exist, then the more appropriate plan of action would be to refuse the package or keep it in tact and bring it still sealed to the government agency in question... Perhaps it could be left on the porch or where ever it was first discovered to have arrived without appropriate protections, and a government agency could be called for help... If you really feel there was a breach of your safety, I don't think you need to do this research. Simply call 911, and a safety officer from your town will know how to provide adequate safety for you or they will know the path to get it to you... I know of a person who had a suspicious substance arrive in their house via the mail, they called 911, and the fire department's has-mat team showed up to deal with it... Still, I think a complaint to the BBB or some other such organization may be more in line than to involve safety personnel. (Especially since we all know that the chemistry of these particular batteries, if they are using the right ones, leave a very tiny window for the danger that the regulations about shipping are in place for... Those regulations, and the parallel ones about having these particular batteries on airplanes are outdated and should be more reflective of real exposures) __________________ Karl Ian Sagal To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. "Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin) Bene factum melior bene dictum Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

06-17-2009, 12:01 PM	#6
MTOBATTERY Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: York, PA Posts: 644	Statement If you would like to contact DOT the phone number we have on file is 1-866-377-8642. One thing I would like to point out is that since you shipped these batteries to them you will be implimenting yourself for the exact same violation unless you shipped them properly. We have been fined by DOT and yes the fines/consequences are very real. Our violations were not intentional but rather due to changes in regulations which we were not aware of. If you would like to discuss DOT and how it works more I would be happy to talk with you but I cannot allow myself or anyone from my company to direct you on how you should proceed. If the batteries are being shipped without hazmat it is wrong and is indeed a reportable violation. Make sure you consider all facts and angles on this before contacting DOT. Once you call you cannot turn back. __________________ Warm Regards, Jason Abel Battery Builders / MTO Battery

06-17-2009, 04:01 PM	#8
RICHSYAMAHA New Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lockport,Il Posts: 14	Maybe You Should Talk To Shipper Before Shooting Shame On You For Being So Mean

06-16-2009, 11:49 PM	#3
Civicsman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Freedonia! Posts: 1,703	The US Department of Transportation is the controlling agency in this matter, I believe. I support the need for everyone to follow the rules, but it's just asking for trouble for a third party to get directly involved in pursuing a complaint, especially a third party that is a competitor of the alleged perpetrator. BTW, the OP would seem to be a violation of Florin's interpretation of the Terms of Service, specifically: "- don't harm anybody and/or their business (including Inc.'s)". I don't interpret the intent of the TOS the same way as Florin, and I questioned him about whether complaints like the OP are allowable under his interpretation. This seems like a good opportunity for some clarification. Whether it's correct or incorrect, this original post can only have a negative affect on ebattery/batteryrefill's business. So is the original post allowable, or not?

06-17-2009, 09:04 AM	#4
DarthSegVator Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 688	Reporting a problem with a dealer/supplier publicly can have many motivations. Some to warn others and some for leverage or revenge. Stating factual reasons for not be satisfied seems to fall in the first catagory, although they can be subjective and often unverifiable. Someones perception of value/service can vary greatly from another. Some tell only portions of the situation and leave out others to support their position. What will getting the supplier in trouble with the government do to improve the situation? This seems to fall in the second catagory. If everything worked out fine with this aftermarket supplier, would you still be looking to report them to the authorities? If not, you shouldn't do it now.

06-17-2009, 07:47 PM	#9
rook2218joe Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 189	See Next thread This battle started in October and it still continues. I have stated my opionion...by the way, I am not being mean. I shipped using a Haz. Mat. Certificate as supplied by an authorized agent...no self indictment! I wouldn't use them again...you can do as you please. Their email to me today, June 17th was a "back breaking straw"...all I wanted was my old battery back as they promised. My lawyer DID MENTION to me that based on his research this could go "Class Action"...much like Disney. And yet, some Segway owners don't believe that Segways should be allowed at Disney World. This is my opinion. Their email is attached entitled "ebattery wants "TRUTH" post is available for your viewing. This is a really LONG story and I won't bother you with the details that I have left off. I remember hearing about "one man doing nothing" about a perceived wrong.

06-17-2009, 08:32 PM	#10
rook2218joe Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 189	Richsyamaha Now that I'm back from my evening glide some personal responses. How can you be so apathetic? Wrong is wrong!

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