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Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

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Old 03-19-2017, 08:23 PM   #11
Pescador12
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Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
They seem to require a bunch of stuff before letting folks ride:

https://www.segintown.com/4dptdcp

(Number 5 of those lets me out - I don't have a smartphone).

And then, I'm confident that they require that folks sign a legal form saying they understand it's dangerous, and they won't sue the company.
Ah, that makes sense about the app requirement. The segway app has a beginners tutorial that restricts the mini pro's speed until all steps have been completed. 3mph limit, then 6 mph, then 10mph as the beginner demonstrates skills such as turning and stopping.

I wonder if the tours will help Segway sell units.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:28 AM   #12
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I will repeat what I said.....There is no redundancy and these are far more dangerous than a original Segway....

If you dont get a warning how do you know your going head first over it?

YOU DONT!


Please look at this thread. http://forums.segwaychat.org/showthread.php?t=34957
I'm not exactly clear why you keep referring to that thread. Are you aware that a Ninebot Elite is totally different from a MiniPro?

I don't have any proof that a MiniPro is safer than an Elite, but I have also never seen any proof that it isn't. Have you seen any sources that address this?
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:21 AM   #13
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When you develop a new technology, you have to be very careful of the end result of any failures once you start selling them - If you don't, the public perception of your new gee whiz thing can turn 180 degrees almost overnight and the many millions you have invested are gone in an instant

For example, electric cars - Occasionally we read about a good ole gasoline car which catches fire in the garage and burns down the house - Doesn't happen very often, thankfully, but there was a problem with a brake light switch on a certain model that actually caused a few houses to go up in flames. If this happened even once to a newly marketed EV, the 'stain' on all EV's would be catastrophic and would set the industry back many years.

Three Tesla's caught fire as a result of an accident breaching the battery pack and the public was up in arms, calling them 'unsafe' even though not a single person was burned or killed - Never mind the fact that 17 gasoline powered cars catch fire every hour in the USA, killing more than 200 people every year. Public perception of anything new is critical and you've got to get it right the first time

Hoverboards - Everybody was tripping all over themselves to get the cheapest hoverboard on the market in time for Christmas not too long ago. Obviously, they cut corners everywhere they could to save money so they could sell their model for less than their competition. Various models caught fire all over the place and finally this month, one burned down a house and killed a three year old. Many recalls, but obviously the problem still isn't 100% fixed. I would NEVER have one of those in my house!

When Segways were first developed it became obvious very quickly that there was a real probability that almost any malfunction in the machine could toss the rider off and maybe even kill him/her depending on what they got tossed into. A product that they had hoped to bring in quickly and at a much lower cost became much more complicated as they sought to make it safe for anyone to ride. In the book, they relate how in the early development stage nearly everyone who tried it had an episode of getting tossed into a wall or worse

Back to the drawing boards! Each time they discovered any malfunction that could seriously harm the rider, they went to work to eliminate that possibility . . . . . and the complexity and price kept soaring. What they hoped would be simple and cheap to build so that everyone could afford one, making it possible to revolutionize personal transportation ended up being so complex and expensive that almost nobody could afford one - Just like the wheelchair that preceded it - Great wheelchair, but at a price of $25K there weren't many buyers. It had to be literally perfect . . . . if a wheelchair killed even one disabled occupant, the news would have literally shot down the entire project and every dime they had spent developing it would have been lost

What we got with the Seg was a very safe machine *because* they eventually found the only safe way was to have dual everything - If a failure of any single component or series of components could toss the rider into traffic, there are two systems so that when one fails, the redundant system can sound the alarm and safely bring the machine to a stop - Very few riders ever get tossed because the machine has a failure. You should be able to ride a Seg on only one battery for about 10 miles, but you can't, can you? For 12 or 14 years, Segs have built up a remarkable reputation as a very safe means of transport with few problems

'Segway' has been sold now a couple of times. What did the current owners actually pay for? Mostly that reputation, and now they're beginning to trade on it - They are making the cheap, affordable machine that Dean Kamen dreamed of and they're selling them for only a few hundred dollars - Why couldn't Dean have done that?

Mini-Pro buyers see the 'Segway' brand on it and assume it's built to the same standards as the machines that built up that reputation. If I didn't know a darned thing about the technology (and most buyers don't) I would see all these cheap Chinese attempts at building a $500 Segway-like device and steer clear of all of them, especially after seeing all the Chinese hoverboards catching fire, *but* when I see the Segway name on a $750 'personal transporter' I'm automatically impressed . . . . by the name, even if I don't have a clue exactly what I'm buying. Surely Segway wouldn't sell anything that's unsafe . . . . would they? They never have before

I hear "It's better than a real Segway because it only weighs 28 pounds and you can carry it with you" and I guess some people actually think that - All of the amazing Segway safety technology has been reduced to 28 pounds and $750. Truly remarkable!

Do you think they left anything out?

Don
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by SegNerd View Post
I'm not exactly clear why you keep referring to that thread. Are you aware that a Ninebot Elite is totally different from a MiniPro?

I don't have any proof that a MiniPro is safer than an Elite, but I have also never seen any proof that it isn't. Have you seen any sources that address this?
I guess by personal experiance isnt good enough for you?...sigh
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Old 03-20-2017, 11:13 PM   #15
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What personal experience? I could be mistaken, but I don't recall you ever mentioning owning, or even riding, a Ninebot Elite.
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Old 03-21-2017, 01:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don M View Post
When you develop a new technology, you have to be very careful of the end result of any failures once you start selling them - If you don't, the public perception of your new gee whiz thing can turn 180 degrees almost overnight and the many millions you have invested are gone in an instant

I hear "It's better than a real Segway because it only weighs 28 pounds and you can carry it with you" and I guess some people actually think that - All of the amazing Segway safety technology has been reduced to 28 pounds and $750. Truly remarkable!

Do you think they left anything out?

Don
I think they left off the handle bars that keep you from stepping off it if it stops suddenly from failure or hitting an obstacle. Plus, they left off 3.5mph of top speed. Left off since 13.5mph has proven to be unsafe?

I never thought of Segways as safe. Plenty of news stories of those big powerful machines sending people to the hospital. Segway just promised good wire routing and battery management/charging circuits in their Amazon.com advertisements.

I thought of Segway safety as I took my Can Am DS450 ATV over some jumps by my house. Four wheels are the way to go if you want to be safe and have $7000 to burn. Think of the extra two wheels as redundancy.

Maybe riding on just two wheels is worth the risk? Risk for reward. Worth the risk for me as I enjoy having the mini pro that I can carry in one hand then toss it in my truck. Then ride it at an unexplored park while enjoying a refreshing beverage.

Last edited by Pescador12; 03-21-2017 at 02:51 AM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:23 AM   #17
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Yup - Sounds like a Mini-Pro is perfect for you!

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Old 03-26-2017, 12:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pescador12 View Post
I think they left off the handle bars that keep you from stepping off it if it stops suddenly from failure or hitting an obstacle. Plus, they left off 3.5mph of top speed. Left off since 13.5mph has proven to be unsafe?

I never thought of Segways as safe. Plenty of news stories of those big powerful machines sending people to the hospital. Segway just promised good wire routing and battery management/charging circuits in their Amazon.com advertisements.

I thought of Segway safety as I took my Can Am DS450 ATV over some jumps by my house. Four wheels are the way to go if you want to be safe and have $7000 to burn. Think of the extra two wheels as redundancy.

Maybe riding on just two wheels is worth the risk? Risk for reward. Worth the risk for me as I enjoy having the mini pro that I can carry in one hand then toss it in my truck. Then ride it at an unexplored park while enjoying a refreshing beverage.
Your guess about the handlebar is not accurate. If the device hits a wall and stops, no handlebar will not let you step off, because a wall is there.

Your guess about the 13.5 mph being unsafe is not accurate. Segways went 12.5 mph as a max to start with, but they had models that topped out at 10 mph (133p) as an example. So the reduced top speed is not a safety enhancement, although each increase in speed requires almost exponential increases in difficulty. 10 mph safely is many times more difficult than 5 mph safely, not just twice.

If you never considered segways safe, good for you. We are all entitled to our own opinion. Stats say a lot. I think you may find mile for mile, or machine by machine, segways have less serious injuries than ATVs.

Since your profile says you never owned a segway, and you state here that you never found them safe, it all makes sense. Just that posting on a segway forum your opinions on items you never owned makes a difference.
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Old 03-26-2017, 03:16 PM   #19
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'Segway' has been sold now a couple of times. What did the current owners actually pay for? Mostly that reputation..
Actually, the old Segway was purchased for its patents. Segway was suing a number of companies for patent violations. U.S. Customs was seizing products imported from other countries for violating the patents. The new owners got the patent rights, and Segway's reputation for reliability came along for the ride.

Quote:
I never thought of Segways as safe. Plenty of news stories of those big powerful machines sending people to the hospital.
There have been injuries, to be sure, and almost every one of those was caused by the rider themselves, not the machine. Most ATV injuries are caused in the same way.

Maybe think of the old epitaph, "Hold my beer and watch this!", the next time you are doing jumps on your ATV.
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Old 03-27-2017, 02:24 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
Your guess about the handlebar is not accurate. If the device hits a wall and stops, no handlebar will not let you step off, because a wall is there.

Your guess about the 13.5 mph being unsafe is not accurate. Segways went 12.5 mph as a max to start with, but they had models that topped out at 10 mph (133p) as an example. So the reduced top speed is not a safety enhancement, although each increase in speed requires almost exponential increases in difficulty. 10 mph safely is many times more difficult than 5 mph safely, not just twice.

If you never considered segways safe, good for you. We are all entitled to our own opinion. Stats say a lot. I think you may find mile for mile, or machine by machine, segways have less serious injuries than ATVs.

Since your profile says you never owned a segway, and you state here that you never found them safe, it all makes sense. Just that posting on a segway forum your opinions on items you never owned makes a difference.
DonM stated that Segways had a public perception of safe. As a card carrying member of the public, most of whom (like me) do not own a Segway, I stated that I never had that (thought of them as safe) perception of Segway devices. It was a rebuttal to his point. Didn't the public pass laws because they aren't considered as safe as DonM claims?

My understanding is that private owners can't ride segways on the Golden Gate but tour operators can? San Fran thinks they are safe?
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