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Old 10-21-2014, 06:58 PM   #1
Lily Kerns
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Default United-more Seg phobia! Advice?

I decided to contact the airlines to see how they are complying with the new rules allowing the disabled to fly with their lithium ion Segeas. I'd invite all of you who are rejoicing over these new rules to do the same. Let them know that it matters to us and that we expect them to comply.

I contacted United first and got three responses, two of them obviously official. The first was a copy of the federal legal statement. The second was the usual disability boiler plate but included two interesting paragraphs.
"Yes, Lily
United does understand about the use of a Segway as an assistive device. You can check this item at no cost to you. A wheelchair is probably the best way to navigate the airport due to the volume of people traversing. You can order a wheelchair: ...
Your segway can be checked and returned to you after your flight. If this is not satisfying to you, you should call the disabilities desk at least 48 hours prior to departure for the proper clearances: "

Great logic! Too crowded to use a Segway (as the security guards do) so you should use a wheel chair instead! In fairness, they have not made this an absolute rule but their expectation is obvious....

Quick question...am I right that airports themselves are ADA liable, not under transportation rules?

Now the third response was the interesting one. I don't know what his role on this forum is but there was a sub note that another expert was preparing a response ... I'm going to quote both of his responses

Fly by Night and Day
UNITED AIRLINES • 12136 ANSWERS • 92% HELPFUL
Never heard of such a thing. Really? I can't find anything on United's or the TSA site. I cannot imagine how a Segway, which takes a lot of skill to ride could be used by the disabled. And, an airport allowing people to zoom around does not sound safe. Some airports have peace officers who use them. But, they also carry weapons.
If you can tell me where you heard this, I will be happy to look into it further. In the meanwhile, stick to a wheelchair.
Best of luck to you, Lily! "

Me:
This rule was updated online just a couple days ago.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...5_110&am...
Section 17 is the relevant one and yes, this is current as of October 17"

At this point I also gave him my usual spiel on Segway advantages, use in crowds , advantages for disabllities etc. ( including Segs 4Vets). I got this response:

,Fly by Night and Day
UNITED AIRLINES • 12136 ANSWERS • 92% HELPFUL
Sounds fascinating. The majority of disabilities are unable to walk or stand for any length of time. While a Segway may be a great way to get around in general, it is not coming to an airport near you any time soon, as the police who use them are already under fire at several locations for being a safety hazard. At SFO, they use bicycles in the concourse and those are dangerous enough. "
........

I'd like to respond to him, but I sure could use some advice!
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:21 PM   #2
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His responses are inappropriate. They are condescending, arrogant and ignorant. "Stick to a wheelchair"? Is he kidding???

If he's an employee of the airline, I would ask for the name and contact info of his supervisor. That is a person who should not be providing customer service. If he's just some random jerk on a board, I'd ignore him.
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Old 10-21-2014, 07:26 PM   #3
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Lily,

First, teach a Pig to sing. Then teach that pig to express the virtues of the segway, we all know, to that guy.

In other words, you are talking to a brick. He is stating his misinformed opinion as if fact....

I might start with agreeing with the fact that bicycles do not mix well with pedestrians. Go on to mention that every major government study rated segways higher, and more safe than alternatives.

If this guy is in a position of authority, that is sad, but like all compromises, it is best to start with points you can agree on, even if small points.

Good luck.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:00 AM   #4
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Update. Further conversation with two other persons has clarified issues. It has in fact been friendly and productive and I've directed one of the women to this forum. for more information on using a seg for her disability. You never know, do you?

Just FYI. The site I was directed to is not an official United site. It is manned by current and former United employees who are familiar wth company rules and policies.

One thing more. I think we need to be a bit careful on interpreting this new set of rules. I'm not a lawyer! But it looks to me like, unlike the ADA, this does not require them to accept your lithium seg.... It just allows them to... How do you read it?
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:57 AM   #5
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As I indicated in my post on the other fly with Segway thread, airlines will have to develop their own internal documentation to comply with very new regulations and communicate internally. That takes time. For some it will take longer, much longer. I'm trying to share good news for many of us, but it isn't an overnight switch to flip.
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Old 10-24-2014, 02:00 AM   #6
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And that was a pretty crass response you got from the folks at United.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily Kerns View Post

Fly by Night and Day
UNITED AIRLINES • 12136 ANSWERS • 92% HELPFUL
Never heard of such a thing. Really? I can't find anything on United's or the TSA site. I cannot imagine how a Segway, which takes a lot of skill to ride could be used by the disabled. And, an airport allowing people to zoom around does not sound safe. Some airports have peace officers who use them. But, they also carry weapons.
If you can tell me where you heard this, I will be happy to look into it further. In the meanwhile, stick to a wheelchair.
Best of luck to you, Lily! "

Me:
This rule was updated online just a couple days ago.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...5_110&am...
Section 17 is the relevant one and yes, this is current as of October 17"
Regarding the specifics: I have often used my Segway at SFO -- and have done so for years -- and have had several pleasant encounters with the SFO police on both Segways and bicycles in doing so.

It's been years since I've encountered an attitude like this.

As for your link -- it seems broken. I wasn't able to google up anything clear. But I did find this news item about forthcoming changes, and also what may be the relevant entry in the Federal Register, but to sort out what it means is beyond my available time....

Quote:
ICAO Agrees to Prohibit Lithium Metal Batteries as Cargo on Passenger Aircraft; Plans to Address Cargo Aircraft in October 2014

April 22nd, 2014 | Posted in General

The ICAO Dangerous Goods Panel (DGP), meeting in Montreal the week of April 7 – 11, 2014, agreed to a prohibition on the transport of lithium metal batteries as cargo on passenger aircraft and several consequential amendments to the lithium battery Packing Instructions in the ICAO Technical Instructions for the Safe Transport of Dangerous Goods by Air. The DGP’s decision must now be formally ratified by the ICAO Air Navigation Commission and ICAO Council, which is expected to occur in early May, 2014. The prohibition is expected to take effect January 1, 2015.

The DGP did recognize that situations may arise where the transport of lithium metal batteries as cargo on passenger aircraft may be avoidably necessary. To address these situations, the DGP agreed by a vote of 8 -7 to authorize the transport of lithium metal batteries as cargo on passenger aircraft under a new Approval provision that is still being developed by the Secretary’s office.

PRBA participates in all of the DGP meetings and often submits proposals on lithium batteries for consideration by the DGP. For more information, contact George Kerchner at 202.719.4109 or gkerchner@wileyrein.com.
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:58 PM   #8
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Ah, I found better info and links in this thread (including a link from you that works):

http://forums.segwaychat.org/showthread.php?t=33424
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segrick-ATL View Post
And that was a pretty crass response you got from the folks at United.
I just got a followup message...rant.... From that person at United and it was so bizarre that I'm going to ignore it. She obviously has her own problems.....
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns View Post
Ah, I found better info and links in this thread (including a link from you that works):

http://forums.segwaychat.org/showthread.php?t=33424
This seems to be for shipping, not accompanying passengers. And if my quick read was correct, the limit was 35 and Segs are 36....

BTW. Happy birthday!
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