URGENT-Disney Proposed Settlement

[DesertSeg]

Seconded!

[davidferleger]

FYI

I'm the attorney for DRAFT - Disability Rights Advocates for Technology, which - with 100 individuals - have filed objections to the Disney/Segway class settlement which would permanently forbid Segways at Disney properties. You may not yet know that 23 States have joined us in objecting, as well as the United States, and several national disability organizations as well.

The case is at 2 levels at the moment -

- the Florida federal court is considering whether to approve the class action and settlement. Briefs were filed. A decision is awaited.

- we requested to become parties (to 'intervene') in the suit. We were denied by the Florida federal court. That decision was appealed. Briefs will be filed in the next few weeks.

David Ferleger


P.S. If you would like a copy of the brief we filed in the Florida federal court, let me know and I will send a PDF. Send a message PM here

[MowTin]

I think the judge who threw out the case said that using the Segway was a "preference." But what he neglected to consider was that it's preferred because it provides more freedom. And making Disney accessible is more than just fascilitating moving from point A to B.

[X-man]

Originally Posted by MowTin

I think the judge who threw out the case said that using the Segway was a "preference." But what he neglected to consider was that it's preferred because it provides more freedom. And making Disney accessible is more than just fascilitating moving from point A to B.

I was offered a wheelchair once. Having COPD , I simply told the individual that if I could exert myself to that extent, I'd walk. I would be a menace on a machine that I was unfamiliar with.

Too bad the story about Sgt. Richardson of the Chicago PD has been lost. Little matter, as they probably put him out to pasture by now.

I have become somewhat jaded with the ignorance of these people to post what my thoughts concerning them are, I can't post here. I simply can't help that the darkness in the place they have their heads can't let them visualize anything.

[Rolacoy]

Would you be completely comfortable riding a Segway in the crowds at a Disney park? I have been to Disney World twice, but it was about 15 years ago, I think. The parking attendants were using Segways so that probably time stamps the date. I was fascinated by the Segways. We only spent part of the day at Epcot. As I remember the walkways were pretty flat.

I spent last weekend in the crowds at a trade days at Canton, Texas. I understand, Canton is not Disney World, but it was just as crowed with people. I had no trouble gliding in the crowds. We have had our Segways since November. I am very comfortable on mine. However, my wife also has a handi-cap sticker, but has not spent nearly as much time gliding. She has let the Segway get the best of her once getting off, it banged up her ankles and the second time she fell forward on it while mounting. Both times was caused by her lack of experience and not paying attention to details. She did not glide at Canton. I do not think that she has had enough time gliding to have been safe on a Segway in a crowd. My brother-in-law who has glided much less than I, did ride at Canton in the same crowds as I and had no problem.

Here is my thoughts on using a Segway at Disney World or any other crowded event. If a glider is experienced enough to be comfortable gliding in crowds then they could probably do fine. However, it is not only the glider to consider. If I had crashed my Segway at Canton I could have hurt someone else and I had to constantly keep in mind the gliders that might follow me. If I messed up they would have a harder time getting to glide. The City of Canton had banned Segways, caught me gliding when I knew Segways were banned and told me to leave city property, just as Disney has banned Segways. I had to go to the city office and convince them to let me glide. I feel sure that the security workers were watching and hoping that I would do something that they could use to for all time ban Segways, because I had "went over the head" of security. There is a tread detailing my trip to Canton in this forum.

So, it seems to me that people with disabilities should be able to ride where ever they feel comfortable. I am 71 years old and try not take any risk that might cause a fall. Falls at my age just hurt too much. I am sure most of you feel that same way. So far as letting people who do not have disabilities glide at Disney World, I don't know, I would be very cautious. Here is why, my grandson is 21 years old and can glide circles around me, but there is little physical risk to him if he were to fall and he would take many risks. People around him could be hurt and put a black mark on other Segway gliders. I sure don't think that anyone should rent Segways and turn inexperienced gliders loose on a crowd.

People can and do get hurt on/by scooters, but they seem more forgiving and easer to use than a Segway. I don't want to be banned form anyplace and I want all others to have total freedom to walk, glide or ride whatever they choose, but there has to be some common since used preferable by the people and not government. As in all things "if we do not police ourselves, someone else will police us",

[KSagal]

Rolacoy,

I am torn by your post. I agree with much of it, but feel there is an aspect that you are overlooking.

I have seen many a car driver do illegal or irresponsible things. If caught, or even if not, the driver is held responsible, and all other car drivers are not presumed to be about to do the same dumb thing.

I do believe we should police ourselves, and believe that we can easily be our own best enemy, but also believe we need to actively dissuade any authoritarian or would be authoritarian from lumping all segways as being responsible for the worst they have ever seen. It would be the same as saying that all drivers should be treated as habitual drunk drivers.

If a person is on a segway, and does something irresponsible or inappropriate, that person should be held accountable. It does not matter that they were on a segway. If a person were to run through the crowd, it would not make sense to eject all who are walking.

Most of us have seen obnoxious bike riders, who do inappropriate things. That does not justify the elimination of bike lanes. My list of examples of people having the ability to discriminate between the operator and the device could continue on for many more conveyances, yet with segways, we all seem to look alike, and one segway pays for the past activities of all.

(As an example of this, how many of us have had to explain about Mr. Hesslin going over that cliff? I don't know the man or the details, but many who see me on my segway seem to think that event is very significant to me.)

Many people have died on bicycles, yet when I ride, no one tells me what happened to poor Mr. Schwinn.

So, I agree that we must never forget that the reality is that by doing something stupid, we can easily ruin it for the next segway rider, but I also feel we should not ever let that inevitability become acceptable.

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

.....Most of us have seen obnoxious bike riders, who do inappropriate things. That does not justify the elimination of bike lanes. My list of examples of people having the ability to discriminate between the operator and the device could continue on for many more conveyances, yet with segways, we all seem to look alike, and one segway pays for the past activities of all.

(As an example of this, how many of us have had to explain about Mr. Hesslin going over that cliff? I don't know the man or the details, but many who see me on my segway seem to think that event is very significant to me.)

Many people have died on bicycles, yet when I ride, no one tells me what happened to poor Mr. Schwinn.

So, I agree that we must never forget that the reality is that by doing something stupid, we can easily ruin it for the next segway rider, but I also feel we should not ever let that inevitability become acceptable.

Yes, and how many times have you been reminded that the "Inventor" had run one off a cliff?

The Department of Justice has just released a readable and illustrated document summary of Title III ADA 2010.

http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbus...primer2010.htm

This statement is a quote:
”Such safety requirements ( for other motor-powered mobility devices--OPDMD or OPMD) must be based on actual risks, not on speculation or stereotypes about a particular class of devices or how they will be operated by individuals using them.”

It sounds great and I do find this choice of wording significant. Just how effective --and convincing-- it will be, remains to be seen.

[Rolacoy]

I probably rambled too much, I sometimes do that. It just seems that older people and people with handi-caps are more responsible gliders. The price in pain is too high to take risks that might hurt cause us to hurt ourselves and when we are taking care of ourselves the walking public is safer.

Younger people new to a Segway would be a high risk in a crowd such as a rental Segway.

Also I agree that I do not like to be told that I can not do something or go someplace by anybody. I don't like stupid rules made by ignorant officials.

It's late, but I will read the link that you provided Lily. Also I look forward to hashing all of this out in person at the Alamo.

[Rolacoy]

I couldn't wait, I took a quick look. I wish someplace they would have used a drawing of a Segway.

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by Rolacoy

I couldn't wait, I took a quick look. I wish someplace they would have used a drawing of a Segway.

That was my reaction--very poorly illustrated and the illustrations were less than relevant.