Upset and Disappointed

[JPM]

Before I start, let me thank the people who posted in another thread of mine that encouraged me to investigate the legality of Segways in my city (Calgary) before I purchase. Since I’m young and naive I foolishly thought that a relatively modern city like Calgary that has also had a growing concern about ecological issues and the environment for the past years would have no objections to Segways being used by citizens as an ecologically friendly alternative to vehicles.

Boy, was I wrong.

I just got off the phone with the city’s information hotline and was told in no uncertain terms that Segways can’t be used on pathways, sidewalks, trails, etc. Why? Because it’s a motorized device. My points about the Segway’s speed (or lack thereof it), agile controllability, and rider/operator responsibility and discipline were always conveniently ignored, and I was simply brought back to the comment of the Segway being a motorized device.

I was informed that obviously electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters were acceptable to be used on the paths and sidewalks because they were a necessity. I get that. My own grandmother needs a mobility scooter to get around as she is unable to stand or walk for any decent periods of time due to a stroke. However I almost felt that the “necessity” comment was just a politically correct way of telling me that Segway users can’t be trusted and will be irresponsible and tear through congested sidewalks at max speed. I know none of you would do that, and anybody who knows me understands that wouldn’t be the case either. Being less than a year away to start flight training to ultimately become a commercial pilot, I understand better than most the importance of being responsible and in control of the machine you are operating at all times with an emphasis on keeping yourself, and everybody around you safe.

About the only encouraging piece of advice I got from the fellow on the phone was that Segways could be used on private property and on the road. The road use surprised me, as I didn’t think Calgary allowed that. However, given the abominable driving I’ve seen by the citizens of Calgary, the only way I would ever feel comfortable being on a Segway next to traffic would be if I had some sort of force field around me that pushed anything within a ten foot radius away.

Well, needless to say I was a bit appalled at the restrictions Segway owners faced, and I pretty much said that to the guy without mincing words. I realise I was kind of shooting the messenger there, but I was just pretty taken aback as to how hostile Calgary was to Segways and their owners. He did at least empathize with me and agreed that using a Segway as an ecologically friendly vehicle alternative should be something that Calgary should more accepting towards, and didn’t understand the ridiculous restrictions, either. He said he would pass on my concerns to somebody and encouraged me to contact my Alderwoman to push the issue further if I wanted to. Will I do it? Absolutely.

But does this mean I’m going to drop all dreams of getting a Segway? Not at all. I’m still planning on getting one this summer even if the restrictions haven’t been lessened. And I’ll try to do everything I can to educate the city about Segways when I get mine and try to have their use legalised in more areas. I read a few articles about current Calgary Segway owners who also think the restrictions within Calgary are ridiculous, yet continue using their Segways on sidewalks and paths even though it’s technically not permitted. I suppose they just hop the curb onto the side of the road if they see a police cruiser anywhere.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but I knew you folks would be the only ones that understand the disappointment I’m feeling right now. If anybody else has had experience with dealing with this sort of thing, please let me know how it turned out for you.

Thanks,

[SKPeterson]

But I've read many times, here on this forum, about the Segway being a legitimate mobility device for people with certain types of disabilities.

What gives?

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by SKPeterson

But I've read many times, here on this forum, about the Segway being a legitimate mobility device for people with certain types of disabilities.

What gives?

Different countries, different laws.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by JPM

Before I start, let me thank the people who posted in another thread of mine that encouraged me to investigate the legality of Segways in my city (Calgary) before I purchase. Since I’m young and naive I foolishly thought that a relatively modern city like Calgary that has also had a growing concern about ecological issues and the environment for the past years would have no objections to Segways being used by citizens as an ecologically friendly alternative to vehicles.

Boy, was I wrong.

I just got off the phone with the city’s information hotline and was told in no uncertain terms that Segways can’t be used on pathways, sidewalks, trails, etc. Why? Because it’s a motorized device. My points about the Segway’s speed (or lack thereof it), agile controllability, and rider/operator responsibility and discipline were always conveniently ignored, and I was simply brought back to the comment of the Segway being a motorized device.

I was informed that obviously electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters were acceptable to be used on the paths and sidewalks because they were a necessity. I get that. My own grandmother needs a mobility scooter to get around as she is unable to stand or walk for any decent periods of time due to a stroke. However I almost felt that the “necessity” comment was just a politically correct way of telling me that Segway users can’t be trusted and will be irresponsible and tear through congested sidewalks at max speed. I know none of you would do that, and anybody who knows me understands that wouldn’t be the case either. Being less than a year away to start flight training to ultimately become a commercial pilot, I understand better than most the importance of being responsible and in control of the machine you are operating at all times with an emphasis on keeping yourself, and everybody around you safe.

About the only encouraging piece of advice I got from the fellow on the phone was that Segways could be used on private property and on the road. The road use surprised me, as I didn’t think Calgary allowed that. However, given the abominable driving I’ve seen by the citizens of Calgary, the only way I would ever feel comfortable being on a Segway next to traffic would be if I had some sort of force field around me that pushed anything within a ten foot radius away.

Well, needless to say I was a bit appalled at the restrictions Segway owners faced, and I pretty much said that to the guy without mincing words. I realise I was kind of shooting the messenger there, but I was just pretty taken aback as to how hostile Calgary was to Segways and their owners. He did at least empathize with me and agreed that using a Segway as an ecologically friendly vehicle alternative should be something that Calgary should more accepting towards, and didn’t understand the ridiculous restrictions, either. He said he would pass on my concerns to somebody and encouraged me to contact my Alderwoman to push the issue further if I wanted to. Will I do it? Absolutely.

But does this mean I’m going to drop all dreams of getting a Segway? Not at all. I’m still planning on getting one this summer even if the restrictions haven’t been lessened. And I’ll try to do everything I can to educate the city about Segways when I get mine and try to have their use legalised in more areas. I read a few articles about current Calgary Segway owners who also think the restrictions within Calgary are ridiculous, yet continue using their Segways on sidewalks and paths even though it’s technically not permitted. I suppose they just hop the curb onto the side of the road if they see a police cruiser anywhere.

Anyways, sorry for the rant, but I knew you folks would be the only ones that understand the disappointment I’m feeling right now. If anybody else has had experience with dealing with this sort of thing, please let me know how it turned out for you.

Thanks,

If you haven't already, you should read this study (and hand out the info freely):

http://www.segway.com/downloads/pdfs...ies/14567e.pdf

[KSagal]

First off, it stinks.

Next, I like the force field thing. Once you perfect it, I would be interested in helping you beta test it.

Different country, but similar human reactions. Most all of the restrictions and silly rules will come from ignorance of the segway and how it works. Several places on the planet wanted a built in brake that works even if the power goes out, because they did not want them running out of control, if the electric brakes go out. (Completely ignoring the fact that machine cannot balance or stay upright without the same power.)

Do contact that alderwoman. Speak to her in person, not just on the phone. Show her the segway, and invite her to ride it, or demonstrate it for her. (even if you have to rent or borrow one to do this before you buy). You will find that the segway is in actuality very different to control and manage than many people think. They often think it needs lots of balance like a skateboard does, so they feel they are all on the verge of loosing control, instead of the reality...

Always be polite, and cordial. Do not let frustrations make you say or act rashly. Even when officials are being purposefully ignorant or obtuse, you need to hold your temper.

Point out the vastly rare accidents and problems of segways. Even with tours, they have a tiny percentage of the accidents per mile than bikes, cars, and surely those mobility scooters.

This is not the end of anything. It is the start. I simply means that you must pioneer some understanding and education among the rule makers in your community. I encourage you to not just speak to the alderwoman. Speak to the police, and offer demonstrations to them as well.

Again, I have found over the years that there are lots of little people in local government, who have a need to assert their power over others, even if that power is not real, or not legitimate in some way. But most of the tools they use are based on ignorance of the real facts, or ignorance of the dumb things they are doing. Education is key. So is public opinion and shining a light on the silly things done.

Good luck. Keep us posted. Take a page from Dan in Florida. He did a great job in his community. There are other segway success stories. Do some research and have your facts in good order before you meet with folks. Remember there have been several studies, from several countries and municipalities that studied the safety of segways. They always show well in fair studies.

Lastly, remind them that when people act inappropriately with a car (speeding, drunk driving, etc) they hold the driver accountable, not the car. When people speed, they do not outlaw cars. Same with bikes. (like bike messengers) when they do inappropriate things, they hold the biker responsible, they do not outlaw bikes.

You will find it easy to find report after report of people being run over by people with baby carriages, yet they do not outlaw baby carriages.

You will find it hard to find reports of anyone being run over by a person on their own segway. (but you may find an occasional report of someone afraid of one, or afraid they were going to be run over, or afraid of all kinds of things that did not really happen)

Keep all these false reports and rumors in mind when you educate the leaders of your city. Be ready to debunk them. In just a few moments, you can reduce most all of the legislator's supposed reasons for outlawing segways to falsehoods, and they will be forced to say that they are doing it without cause. (they may not change their minds, or you may have some success)

Good luck. Have fun. Sometime a spirited debate is a lot of fun. Keep us posted.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by KSagal

(Completely ignoring the fact that machine cannot balance or stay upright without the same power.)
.

Worse -- completely ignoring the fact that using a friction brake, powered or not, would cause an immediate face plant.

[SegwayDan]

Guess this is comparable to the situation in Britain. You should search the threads here which discuss the on-going efforts to legalize Segway PTs there.

[lilnyc]

You are my inspiration. I just posted about having a new job with two bike areas -- one inside, one outdoors, BOTH which deny the Segway!

In NYC, the Segway is perfect for commuting. There are trails and bike lanes. But the ignorance is abound here also.

I completely understand your frustration and have even considered getting rid of my Segway, but I can't. There aren't any other alternatives that would work for me that I know of. *sigh*

What's most frustrating is that it IS restricted simply due to ignorance. I travel safer and slower on my Segway than most bikers. I have seen bikers ride wrecklessly, speed through stop signs and crosswalks and almost mow pedestrians down. But Segways are the problem, NYC? Insane.

Like you said, we HAVE to educate people about them. The "Mall Cop" joke is over. We are now talking about restricting choices for everyday people like us.

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by lilnyc

You are my inspiration. I just posted about having a new job with two bike areas -- one inside, one outdoors, BOTH which deny the Segway!

In NYC, the Segway is perfect for commuting. There are trails and bike lanes. But the ignorance is abound here also.

I completely understand your frustration and have even considered getting rid of my Segway, but I can't. There aren't any other alternatives that would work for me that I know of. *sigh*

What's most frustrating is that it IS restricted simply due to ignorance. I travel safer and slower on my Segway than most bikers. I have seen bikers ride wrecklessly, speed through stop signs and crosswalks and almost mow pedestrians down. But Segways are the problem, NYC? Insane.

Like you said, we HAVE to educate people about them. The "Mall Cop" joke is over. We are now talking about restricting choices for everyday people like us.

Somewhere recently, there was a thread about bikers with video cameras on their bikes to record careless and inconsiderate car driver license numbers. If they allow bicycles, you might try taking some video--careless bikers, segway safety and consideration for pedestrians, cross walks, stop lights etc. to bolster your request for re-consideration. Perhaps some other Seg owners have such video you could use as well...

BTW--I don't really have time to check at the moment, but does NY have EPAMD laws that could help out?

[SegNerd]

Originally Posted by lilnyc

I have seen bikers ride wrecklessly

I have a feeling that those reckless riders are not really wreckless.