When to use a scooter instead?

[Lily Kerns]

Originally Posted by Violet

Although they can't deny your mobility device, I believe there is a loophole where they can say it's too dangerous for other customers, or for you because of their environment. (I think they are not supposed to, without very good reason, but they may?) I feel they might feel the X2 is more able to cause damage than i2.

I was told by the DOJ help line that for issues of this kind the first question they would be asked is "what/where is your proof?" For what ever that statement may be worth....

[Violet]

Originally Posted by Lily Kerns

I was told by the DOJ help line that for issues of this kind the first question they would be asked is "what/where is your proof?" For what ever that statement may be worth....

I think their proof would be that the X2 wheels can't even get through the door (without awkward sideways pulling)? Maybe it would not happen, it is just a concern of mine, if I used an X2.

[airdale]

Originally Posted by Violet

I think their proof would be that the X2 wheels can't even get through the door (without awkward sideways pulling)? Maybe it would not happen, it is just a concern of mine, if I used an X2.

A standard commercial door opening is 36 inches, not a problem!

[rickb]

The Segway is the ultimate indoor/outdoor or off road mobility device. However, I recently purchased a scooter (TravelScoot) that I intend to use specifically for airline travel. It's weighs under 30 lbs. with the lithium battery, 4 mph, 10 mile range, fits in nearly any vehicle and if not it folds down. On the maiden flight I drove it to the cabin door, they stowed it, and was delivered to the gate by the time I de-boarded the plane. It's no Segway but has a 'when to use a scooter' application if or when the Segway just isn't practical.

[Bob.Kerns]

In California (and I believe in some other states as well), the i2 and x2 differ in legal status. Only the i2 fits the legal definition of an EPAMD in the statue, and thus is considered a pedestrian, entitled to use the sidewalks as such, etc.

This is distinct from its status as a mobility aid. That is covered under 28 CFR 35 (for ADA Title II) and 28 CFR 36 (for ADA Title III), and it doesn't draw any distinction.

From 28 CFR 35.104:

Other power-driven mobility device means any mobility device powered by batteries, fuel, or other engines—whether or not designed primarily for use by individuals with mobility disabilities—that is used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion, including golf cars, electronic personal assistance mobility devices (EPAMDs), such as the Segway® PT, or any mobility device designed to operate in areas without defined pedestrian routes, but that is not a wheelchair within the meaning of this section. This definition does not apply to Federal wilderness areas; wheelchairs in such areas are defined in section 508(c)(2) of the ADA, 42 U.S.C. 12207(c)(2).

From 28 CFR 36.104:

<Identical text>

[airdale]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

In California (and I believe in some other states as well), the i2 and x2 differ in legal status. Only the i2 fits the legal definition of an EPAMD in the statue, and thus is considered a pedestrian, entitled to use the sidewalks as such, etc.

This is distinct from its status as a mobility aid. That is covered under 28 CFR 35 (for ADA Title II) and 28 CFR 36 (for ADA Title III), and it doesn't draw any distinction.

From 28 CFR 35.104:

that is used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion, including golf cars, electronic personal assistance mobility devices (EPAMDs), such as the Segway® PT, or any mobility device designed to operate in areas without defined pedestrian routes, but that is not a wheelchair within the meaning of this section.

<Identical text>

in what part do you see the difference? I would take it as nether an i2 or x2 would qualify then?

[PeteInLongBeach]

Aside from the legal definition, I can tell you the x2 can be unwieldy in many urban situations. Commercial door width aside, there are other doorways and passages where it won't fit. And, unlike the i2 which is approximately shoulder width and intuitive for judging side clearance, the x2 wheels are more than shoulder width, rendering it NON-intuitive when passing potential obstacles. There is much more risk of catching the x2 wheels on things around you (and you know what can happen then). Off-road, there are far fewer such scenarios, so the width is not much of an issue.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by airdale

in what part do you see the difference? I would take it as nether an i2 or x2 would qualify then?

Sigh. I hope I understand the confusion well enough to address it rather than add to it...

There are two, INDEPENDENT issues. Legal status of the device, for all (i.e. not disabled). I won't look up the language of the CA statute tonight, but simply put, the x2 is just a bit too wide to fit the legal definition under the CA statute.

The CA statute has nothing to do with the ADA status or regulations. That's federal, not state, and what I quoted above. That makes no distinction between them, and thus gives blanket acceptance as an "other power-driven mobility aid" to either model.

If you are not disabled, only the CA statute applies, and only the i2 meets the requirements. If you are disabled, the ADA takes precedence. In most cases, as a mobility aid, I would recommend an i2, as the narrower width is definitely an advantage. I was only *barely* able to enter a store the other day; it would not have been possible in either a wheelchair or an x2, as they had excess stock narrowing the handicap entrance. I find being narrower than a grocery cart a big help in the grocery store, as well, as they often narrow the isles and checkout stands. Narrow is good.

[airdale]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

I was only *barely* able to enter a store the other day; it would not have been possible in either a wheelchair or an x2, as they had excess stock narrowing the handicap entrance. I find being narrower than a grocery cart a big help in the grocery store, as well, as they often narrow the isles and checkout stands. Narrow is good.

Sigh or what ever....

ADA is the ADA... You are assuming... Being tight fine, there minimums and maximums..

In all "Public" places... If someone is in the wrong its there problem and should be pointed out! and then FIXED

This goes to fire alarm heights switches ect, ect...

If a wheel chair wouldn't fit... Id say they have a huge problem! (public) it even starts coming down to fire codes, and NFPA... So you can assume all you like and yes something thinner is better...

Hell why doesn't someone just ask me to not be so lazy and walk through there store?

[QuadSquad]

Originally Posted by airdale

Sigh or what ever....

ADA is the ADA... You are assuming... Being tight fine, there minimums and maximums..

In all "Public" places... If someone is in the wrong its there problem and should be pointed out! and then FIXED

This goes to fire alarm heights switches ect, ect...

If a wheel chair wouldn't fit... Id say they have a huge problem! (public) it even starts coming down to fire codes, and NFPA... So you can assume all you like and yes something thinner is better...

Hell why doesn't someone just ask me to not be so lazy and walk through there store?

What Mr. Kerns is attempting to point out is that under the ADA AG the minimum clearances are 30 inches wide and 48 inches long. The X2 is obviously wider than that.

Mr. Kerns has taken the time to educate himself about the regulations protecting people with disabilities and we applaud that.