SegwayChat
Home . Photos . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Segway Forums > Segway General Discussion

Notices

Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2017, 01:06 PM   #11
dale@thecoys.net
Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,178
5 yr Member
Default

Your injuries are certainly troubling, and the first concerns, of course. But what next? It might be wise to not blindly follow Ninebot's directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pob1970 View Post
my Ninebot Elite died on me yesterday with no warning and still 3 bars on battery
The first question (about what to do next) is - what is the current status? Is it still "dead"? Or does it now seem to work? And are the batteries still in the same state or has it been recharged?
dale@thecoys.net is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 04:26 PM   #12
Don M
Member
Don M is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ocean Springs MS
Posts: 161
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccuXperT View Post
Transport problems are often caused by the batteries.
Do any of these modern day Segway 'copies' use more than just a single battery? Part of the dual system redundancy is the fact that there are two of everything which is important to remaining upright, including two batteries so if one were to malfunction, the other will bring the machine to an upright stop

I do agree that sending the machine to the factory representative will get you nothing - They will benefit because they will use their examination to craft an argument that the incident was all your fault and not the fault of the machine. If you are considering any sort of legal action, speak to your attorney first and the proceed on his recommendation which I would imagine will include an objective third party inspection of your machine and not sending it directly to the factory

So sorry to hear of your injuries - Do you plan on riding this machine again?

Don
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 05:24 PM   #13
Pob1970
New Member
Pob1970 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Uk
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
Your injuries are certainly troubling, and the first concerns, of course. But what next? It might be wise to not blindly follow Ninebot's directions.



The first question (about what to do next) is - what is the current status? Is it still "dead"? Or does it now seem to work? And are the batteries still in the same state or has it been recharged?
No the battery has been recharged and switches on
Pob1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 05:25 PM   #14
Pob1970
New Member
Pob1970 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Uk
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don M View Post
Do any of these modern day Segway 'copies' use more than just a single battery? Part of the dual system redundancy is the fact that there are two of everything which is important to remaining upright, including two batteries so if one were to malfunction, the other will bring the machine to an upright stop

I do agree that sending the machine to the factory representative will get you nothing - They will benefit because they will use their examination to craft an argument that the incident was all your fault and not the fault of the machine. If you are considering any sort of legal action, speak to your attorney first and the proceed on his recommendation which I would imagine will include an objective third party inspection of your machine and not sending it directly to the factory

So sorry to hear of your injuries - Do you plan on riding this machine again?

Don
Haven't decided for sure yet if I'm going to ride it again when my arm is fixed think I will be to nervous
Pob1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 06:46 PM   #15
dale@thecoys.net
Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,178
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pob1970 View Post
No the battery has been recharged and switches on
OK - that means that any "evidence" has been lost.
dale@thecoys.net is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2017, 11:13 AM   #16
allenrohn
First Timer
allenrohn is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: california
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccuXperT View Post
Transport problems are often caused by the batteries. Although one could expand the batteries and send the rest normal, but I believe that will bring in the present case nothing. It is also about liability and argument. So if the device can provide proof of an accident, I would never send it to the manufacturer's premises, but I would have it examined by an independent expert. Already, the public interest is very large, so the manufacturer's test result is already established.

I could write here now that the manufacturer will answer something like that: "We have the PCB's checked and can not find any error. Your fall must therefore have been a driver's fault.". But of course I do not write such a thing here.

Nice that the cheekbone remained intact. I wish you continued good recovery.
Yes, due to lithium batteries problems transporter say no to transport segway.
but new models of segways are good,they are with UL certified batteries.

May be transpoter start transporting segways.
allenrohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2017, 03:59 AM   #17
pcarlson79
First Timer
pcarlson79 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1
Default INSTANT power cut

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pob1970 View Post
my Ninebot Elite died on me yesterday with no warning and still 3 bars on battery and I had only went 50 yards when it cut out ended up in A&E with a broken arm and badly bashed face!
Hi,

I just bought a Ninebot Elite second hand and my battery went flat after just 8km with 4 bars remaining but it vibrated and shook with Error 37 so I walked it home. Plugged it in to charge for 10 seconds then it was all good again.

I took it to the carpark to test with 4 bars and then with ZERO warning I lost ALL power and fell backwards and opened up my elbow.

Now, being an electrical engineer I decided to NOT charge the battery and open it up. The Ninebot Elite does have 2 battery packs. Each battery is 15s2p with their own BMS onboard. I found that the BMS had tripped on both battery packs which left the system with 0v to try and balance me.

After a few weeks of trial and error, I tracked down the problem to 6 bad cells on BOTH packs. I replaced all the cells and am now getting a much better 17km range and I can safely get down to 2 bars where it limits your speed to 7km/h and then nothing.

So moral of the story is that it IS INDEED possible for the system to cut ALL power with no vibrating, stick shake or beeps, just BOOM no power. Honestly, after looking at the poor LG battery cells they use in the 450Wh packs and the poor SAMSUNG cells in the 670Wh packs, what a terrible decision. Each time they have gone for the cheap low AMP cells, where for an extra $0.30 per cell ($18) they could have put REALLY good LG or SAMSUNG cells like the Samsung 30Q.

But anyway, the fact they have separate BMS inside the battery box that can be triggered without being controlled by the motherboard is a bad design. I would much rather the battery get hurt by dropping under 3v than my elbow or worse. Rather than limiting current, they use a really cheap MOSFET cut design. Looking at the BMS it's no different to a cheap $15 BMS from ebay
pcarlson79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 06:17 AM   #18
mathiegi
New Member
mathiegi is on a distinguished road
 
mathiegi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Switzerland Europe
Posts: 10
5 yr Member
Default non redundand = unsafe

hi there

In Switzerland every selfbalancing vehicle need to be fullredundant.
everything else is forbitten.
Of cource we can ride the real Segway PTs.
NineBot Elite, Mini Pro, One and stuff like this is forbitten to use!
mathiegi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 11:28 AM   #19
dale@thecoys.net
Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,178
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarlson79 View Post

I took it to the carpark to test with 4 bars and then with ZERO warning I lost ALL power and fell backwards and opened up my elbow.
....
Now, being an electrical engineer I decided to NOT charge the battery and open it up. The Ninebot Elite does have 2 battery packs. Each battery is 15s2p with their own BMS onboard. I found that the BMS had tripped on both battery packs which left the system with 0v to try and balance me.
....
So moral of the story is that it IS INDEED possible for the system to cut ALL power with no vibrating, stick shake or beeps, just BOOM no power.
....
But anyway, the fact they have separate BMS inside the battery box that can be triggered without being controlled by the motherboard is a bad design.
Thank you for the comprehensive analysis. That information is extremely valuable. And, of course, may save others from painful experience.

Last edited by dale@thecoys.net; 06-23-2017 at 01:02 PM.. Reason: Add info
dale@thecoys.net is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2017, 01:46 PM   #20
Pescador12
Member
Pescador12 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 113
Default

A BMS inside the battery box that can be triggered independent of the Segway's motherboard is a good design. Lots of transportation requirements that large lithium batteries stay connected to circuits that protect them from abuse. Abuse that could cause fires.

Like having a fuse installed closest to the battery (it is inside the battery) instead of far downstream the circuit path.

That the Segway's motherboard didn't refuse to start up with such a low battery is the poor design. The battery's BMS and the motherboard have different ideas on what is a critically low battery?
Pescador12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:06 AM.
Copyright 2002-2017 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive