Is it reasonable for repair to take three months?

[noalox]

Originally Posted by PeteInLongBeach

Maybe Tesla should just buy Segway and run it right.

Like!

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by PeteInLongBeach

I've always been struck by the irony of a company that produces a product so innovative, progressive, imaginative, etc., but their after sales support model is just the opposite. Oddly, changes in company ownership and management have not resolved the issue so far...

For a customer-focused business model, Segway could look at Tesla for inspiration. Maybe Tesla should just buy Segway and run it right.

I am not familiar with Tesla's after sales service program. It is an interesting thought however...

I do seem to recall that Doug Field is at Tesla. He was the first Technical Operations Manager at Segway. ( I do not remenber his exact title). I may have recalled inaccurately...

[jgbackes]

Using Segway logic I should send my BMW back to Germany for repair. My bimmer has far more mechanical parts, far more circuit boards, and far more feet of wiring. What other consumer transportation device costs $6,000 and has to be shipped back to the factory for repair? Snowmobile? Nope! Jetski? Nope! Moped? Nope!

I love the "world class service" bulls*** that Segway preached when they released the I2-SE. Give me a BREAK!

How is any company that buys/uses a Segway supposed to depend on it when it has to be shipped back to the factory for TWO F****** MONTHS when it breaks?

For years, companies have relied on using 3rd parties for repairs. It's about time for Segway to step up and have a company like GE or The Geek Squad perform on-site or carry-in repair.

Two controller boards, one BSA, two motors, two transmissions, one power-supply, one radio board, and one leanstear assembly. That's it. A simple flowchart and have a service company swap out the parts.

Just for example I typed "Copier Repair" into Google Search:

Techno Copier Systems
plus.google.com
Google+ page
301 S B St
San Mateo, CA
(650) 342-9292

OneSource Office Systems
www.onesource-office.com
Google+ page
1527 Yew St
San Mateo, CA
(800) 774-6834

Lasertorium Printer - Copier - Scanner Repair
www.lasertorium.com
3 Google reviews · Google+ page
388 Market St
San Francisco, CA
(415) 681-6308

Konica Minolta Business Solutions U.S.A., Inc.
kmbs.konicaminolta.us
Google+ page
1051 E Hillsdale Blvd #510
Foster City, CA
(650) 345-2800

KBA Docusys
www.kbadocusys.com
Google+ page
32950 Alvarado-Niles Rd
Union City, CA
(510) 214-4040

LASERTORIUM Printer - Copier - Scanner Repair
www.lasertorium.com
Google+ page
2200 Judah St
San Francisco, CA
(415) 681-6308

Konica Minolta Business Solutions U.S.A., Inc.
kmbs.konicaminolta.us
3 Google reviews
1141 Harbor Bay Pkwy #100
Alameda, CA
(510) 865-7200

Last argument. Eco-Friendly. How eco-friendly is it to send the entire unit back to the factory for repair?

Segway either decides to make their products repairable or people will stop buying them... Oh wait...

But then again, I could be wrong.

jeff

[Civicsman]

As a guy who fixes things for a living, I think I may have a different perspective than that explained above.

It does sound nice. I like the idea expressed, and if the world worked that way, it would be an easier place to live and work. But the world does not really work like that.

First off, that presumes a technical know how that simply is not that common. It may seem common to civicsman, or even some of us on this forum, because places like this appeal to technical folks, but the vast majority of consumers are just not that technically adept.

Next, it presumes that diagnostics are absolute. If a segway breaks, when it was not supposed to break, what makes you think it will break in a way that it knows how it broke? Diagnostic codes are fine and helpful, and they are surely where a technician starts, but none worth their name would end there...

Let's take a very simple code that says the rear battery is dead or not charged. What does this mean? Is it a problem with the battery not taking a charge? Maybe it means the charger is not working right? Maybe the battery is loose? Maybe some of each? Maybe the voltage sensing capacity of the board that decided the code was faulty, and there is no problem at all with the battery or charger? I could go on, for a long time.

...
This is not exactly about skill sets, but in some ways the plan identified by civicsman would require a particular skill set that he may have, and some of us may have, but surely others would not. It would be very expensive, and there would not necessarily be any pay back at all. It would of course, drive the price of segways up.

For that matter, while I agree it is a good plan, I wonder if there is any other product on the market that has that plan for service?

There are elements that I recognize, but I cannot think of any product that is doing what he says. Some computer products come to mind, like laptop computers, but they are really not in the same category, as if they break after an attempted repair, it is pretty unlikely you would fall on your face in a busy street, yet with a segway, a serious failure could lead to that...

So, I do applaud the idea. I hope someone can fill me in with some significant product that has a service plan like it. I just do not see it as practical from a manufacturer's perspective.

I was a field service technician for complex electromechanical systems for many years. (BTW, a Segway PT is NOT complex, relatively speaking.) I fully understand that many people can't make repairs for themselves. However, others CAN do some stuff.

For example, individual owners who are not near a dealer (that is, a dealer who is actually capable of performing troubleshooting) could plug a memory stick into their machine, then press a button sequence on the Seg which would dump all diagnostic data to the stick. Then, plug the stick into your computer and go to a Segway website which would capture the data. Based on the remote diagnostic information, and Segway troubleshooting flow-charts, the dealer would know what needed to be done, and could make an estimate to the owner of what it would cost and how long it would take. With commitment from the customer (credit card), the dealer could order the parts in advance. If the dealer is incapable of making repairs, then they could assist the owner in returning the Seg to the factory.

As said by jgbackes, "there are only two controller boards, one BSA, two motors, two transmissions, one power-supply, one radio board, and one leanstear assembly. That's it. A simple flowchart and have a service company swap out the parts". I agree. A dealer ought to be able to run a diagnosis, order parts, and have them available within one or two business days. Segway needs to take responsibility for the quality of their diagnostics, so that dealers (and customers) do not have to eat the cost of repair parts that do not fix a particular problem.

KSagal is correct that the diagnostics have to work, but surely Segway can write diagnostics that can isolate a problem to one or two components. Automobile manufacturers do it, and their systems are MUCH more complex. If the diagnostics are not sufficiently specific, and it a technician needs to "shotgun" a few parts into a particular machine to fix it, then so be it. Throwing parts at a machine, in the order of likelihood of a fix, is a well established method of troubleshooting. Segway needs to figure out how to get machines fixed in the field without the huge negative impact on the owner that is now far too common. At the very least, they need to catch up on the backlog of machines to be repaired! The backlog should never be more than a few days.

The assertion that there is no payback for Segway to do anything to make this situation better apparently does not consider customer satisfaction. At the moment, many people who are unfortunate enough to require a Segway repair will have a negative experience, whether it be driving for hours to a dealer, paying for expensive shipping, and/or waiting months for Segway to get around to making repairs. Anyone going through that gauntlet will think twice about purchasing another machine, and might well communicate their feelings to others.

The bottom line is that the repair service, such as it is, sucks. There are many ways that Segway could enhance their busted-a** repair system, but they don't seem to have an interest in doing so, or the capability.

Once their patents expire....

[dale@thecoys.net]

So, have you folks helped SuperDDS?

[Civicsman]

So, have you folks helped SuperDDS?

The topic is "Is this [level of service] reasonable". Not sure if the answer ("no") helps SuperDDS directly or not, but I think my comments are on topic.

[dale@thecoys.net]

Originally Posted by Civicsman

The topic is "Is this [level of service] reasonable". Not sure if the answer ("no") helps SuperDDS directly or not, but I think my comments are on topic.

Yes, of course your comments are on topic.

But SuperDDS hasn't posted anything during the past week. I would be interested in hearing how it's going.

And, IMO, if the correct answer is "no", then I think it would be a great service to the community if the dealer is identified.

[SegNerd]

I think the issue is that you have sort of conflated two different questions here:

Is a repair time of two months reasonable? No.

But is a repair time of two months normal? Unfortunately, yes.


One other question I have is why, not only do you have to send it back to the factory for repairs, but AFAIK, you have to send it in for firmware updates too. Can you imagine if (insert any other tech product here) worked that way?

[KSagal]

First off, I have had segways for many years, and they have needed very little service.

Next, I live 40 miles from the factory, so many of the problems explained here do not directly apply to me. The few times I had any need, I drove there myself.

Also, I am very handy, and am more likely to fix it than get it fixed. While I have not had to do this too much with my machines, I have done quite a few modifications to them, and therefore have fixed those mods. I have also helped many people fix their own machines, or fixed them for them. So I am not entirely unfamiliar with the complexities of a segway. (or the simplicities of one)

I was trying to say that I agree in concept with Civicsman's idea, but did not think it met the real world realities.

Comparing it to a copier, when their are millions of copiers in existence, and copier service companies all over the place, and copiers still do not fit the described service plan as outlined by civicsman, I think is not a fair comparison.

I am also not trying to say, in any way, that I believe that Segway does a good job at providing service for their broken machines, or their clients with a particular need. I will not make that argument, even while not having had a problem, because I have heard of enough to understand it is a real issue.

Lastly, as is often the case, people post pie in the sky ideas and suggestions as to how others should run their companies, or service departments in this matter, yet the simple rebound questions go unanswered...

Name one other manufacturer of a conveyance with a few hundred thousand pieces or less who uses a service plan as described by civicsman. That was the question, and it is unanswered, because it does not exist. If the idea is so good, it would.

Please name any company of any product that has a service plan like described, because I would like to know.

Now, some others have indicated that their car does not go back to the factory for service, and that is true.

But I might offer that 10 years after the first car was built, it was very difficult to find any professional who could fix it like the factory can. That is all.

A hundred years from now (the approximate age of automobiles in mass production.) I suspect the repair matrix for segways will look different than it does now.

PLEASE, if anyone knows of any company that does just what Civicsman suggests for service, tell me.

Lastly, Civicsman, you say you were a field service professional for years, did your company do what you described?

[JohnG]

Segways, for better or worse, were not designed or built to be readily serviceable. This was for numerous reasons, but my understanding is one of the primary reasons is because of the assumption that most of the parts simply couldn't fail in the normal life and use of a Segway. That has turned to be a false assumption, and the company is undertaking some steps to rectify the turn-around times on repairs (by equipping a few dealers with the necessary tools to do some).

Hindsight is always 20/20. Not much more can be done about it now -- taking into account the company's current financial state and the economics of repairs.

John