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Old 08-26-2009, 05:12 PM   #21
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If you just buy some non-drinkable alcohol, it's mixed up with <name of substance used to make the alcohol undrinkable>, so it's going to leave this behind when the alcohol vaporizes, as it does not share the same properties.

Over here, you can get "clean" isopropanol, which should do the trick...
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:10 PM   #22
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Yeah matte black or satin black should match pretty well. its easy enough to remove it if you get the wrong one. Just go paint it already!
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:48 PM   #23
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It's always fun to offer your opinion on everything, so here goes . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by legpain View Post
Please, please, please, DON'T CLEAN WITH ANY ALCOHOL when going to paint!!!!!

I can't tell you why I know, the job was classified with GOV. Soap and water WAS ABSOLUTELY THE BEST CLEANING AGENT. Just let dry over night.
John
I work for the government too, but the nature of my activities allows me to pass this along

Other people's experiences are always valuable, but mine differs in this case. Denatured alcohol can work great as a degreaser when you are removing skin oils or mold release from plastics. I know because I've successfully used denatured alcohol as a degreaser prior to painting with lacquer, acrylics, polyurethane and two-part epoxies for decades. Isopropyl or rubbing alcohol - like you buy at the drug store - does not work so well, primarily because it can contain a lot of water. By the way, "denatured alcohol" is not a very specific term. The stuff I buy locally is primarily methanol, but denatured alcohol can also be primarily ethanol with other light solvents mixed in. In some countries or localities, denatured alcohol may include additives to make it bitter and/or a dye to distinguish it from ethanol that is safe (or taxed) to drink. If you're not convinced that "denatured alcohol" can be lots of different chemicals, look at these MSDS sheets and note the different ingredients and concentrations:

Klean Strip denatured alcohol
Parks denatured alcohol
Green Products Co. denatured alcohol
Hill Brothers denatured alcohol

So unless you know exactly what's in your "denatured alcohol," you're probably much better off purchasing a solvent specifically designated for paint prep (see an auto paint store to obtain this solvent). Nowadays, I routinely use such a product and it works very well. Want to test your denatured alcohol for cleanliness? Wipe a clean mirror with it and let the alcohol dry. If there's a haze on the mirror, don't use if for paint prep. If there's no haze, go ahead and use it . . . and you might as well make the best (and cheapest) glass cleaner on the planet: 5% denatured alcohol, 5% clear ammonia, remainder filtered water (the stuff I drink). Just eyeball the proportions. This cleans off bugs, the chemical haze on the inside of your windshield from the vinyl car dash and just about anything else you can think of. As you will have just proved, it leaves no streaks. Don't use it clean the gunk on your sealed fireplace window though - ammonia is bad for the clear ceramic.

There are certainly cases where I would not use alcohol to degrease. For instance, if I was preparing a rough aluminum casting that had lubricant residue from milling, I would not wipe it with a cotton cloth soaked in alcohol. A stiff brush and automatic dishwasher soap - similar to what John recommends above - in lots of hot water would be my first choice. Even then, I would follow up with an aromatic solvent designed for paint prep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legpain View Post
The gloves can be clean cotton, use once.
Cotton gloves can be used to handle parts prior to painting. Be aware that they can leave lint or threads on rough surfaces and can easily conduct skin oils from your hand to a part. For that matter, latex gloves can also transmit skin oils (well enough to leave fingerprints) if you wear them long enough or produce enough oil and sweat. To avoid these problems, I use nitrile gloves. You choice of gloves probably isn't all that important if you're not wearing them very long, although lint in your shiny paint is really annoying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKPeterson View Post
First we hear that alcohol is "acceptable"...
Then we're admonished to not use it. Now I'm confused.
Can someone provide some clarity?
Stuart
Stuart, hopefully the above information helps a little bit. To summarize, unless you know what's in your denatured alcohol, your best bet is to get some paint prep solvent from the local auto parts store. If you can't find one, call an auto body shop and ask them where they buy their paint supplies locally. Or if you're feeling lucky, use soap and water, but not soap that has things in it like aloe, perfume or little scrubbing beads for your sensitive skin. (Automatic dishwasher soap is a good bet.) Just like John said, if you use water, make sure you let the part dry thoroughly before painting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legpain View Post
Use DRY, oil free air to blow off dust before painting. Did this for a few years worked great.
As John alludes to, using compressed air to clean parts before painting can be tricky. If your compressed air is coming from a source charged with a piston-type compressor, then there is very likely to be both oil and water in the compressed air you blow on your part. So if you need to use compressed air, do it before you degrease. If you need to use compressed air after degreasing, you'll need to have a water trap (physical or refrigeration) to remove the water and the junk that's in the water (rust, scale, etc.), and you'll also need some way to remove any oil that's entrained in the air stream (more filters). If you have any of these on your compressor, you probably don't need this information.

An easy test for cleanliness of your compressed air source is to blow some compressed air on a piece of clean glass (or a mirror) for 15 or 20 seconds and then hold it up to the light. I think you'll be surprised at how dirty untreated compressed air streams can be. For pesky, last-minute dust removal, I use a bellows-type blower designed to clean camera parts. It works great, it's cheap, and it doesn' blow anything except ambient air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinggray View Post
It has been quite some time since your Segways have been painted and was wondering how the paint has held up? Have you had to touch it up or repaint it? Has it chiped a lot? Is there a different kind of paint you would use. Do you regret painting it and wish it was still factory paint?
I just sold an i180 on which I painted the fender extensions (they were stock silver) and the 10 wheel inserts (5 each wheel). The paint was applied about three years ago. I used a color-shifting paint that was lacquer-based, followed by two coats of a quality clear acrylic enamel. Before I transferred the i180, I hand buffed the clear to remove a few scratches from my shoes that did not extend into the color. There were also a few minor chips and scratches through the color coat at the very trailing edge of the fender extensions where rocks or debris had been thrown by the tire. These were too deep to repair with anything other than repainting the base, color-shift and clear layers. The paint on the wheel inserts was still perfect, but based on the rate of wear I saw, I probably would have repainted the fender extensions within two more years. I certainly didn't regret painting the parts and will probably do something similar to my new i2.

A lot of people miss the importance of applying a clear coat after they paint something with color. They'll see an auto being painted and know that the color coat is flat, so perhaps assume the clear coat is to make it shiny. Since many paints consumers buy are single-stage - or shiny - right out of the can, they assume a clear coat isn't beneficial for these shiny paints. That's wrong. A quality clear paint is far more durable than any paint with color in it. Clear-coating your paint will not only provide superior scuff and abrasion resistance, it will let you buff out minor damage without cutting through the color coat. The hand buffing I described above was done with a cotton rag and some hand-rubbing compound in about one minute. It completely removed the scratches and restored the finish to a shine that was like-new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberjack View Post
I am considering painting my center console trim with the black Krylon Fusion for Plastic as recommended here. To match the standard look of the black from the factory I believe I use the flat version of the paint. Is this correct? My center console trim was sage metallic not black when purchased.
Joe
The standard black trim is just smooth black plastic with no finish. You could paint your trim flat black, but that's not as shiny as the stock part and flat paint is the least durable of surface finishes. A better choice would be to use a "satin" finish paint. If you only want to spray one type of paint, use some black paint with a satin finish. You can also buy clear in a satin finish, so spraying clear satin over any black paint (that is flat, satin or gloss black) would also give you a durable finish with the right look. The best match, of course, will be the stock part. How close do you want to get?

Glen

p.s. - if you read this whole thing, you should go ride your Segway now

Last edited by glen_d; 08-27-2009 at 11:50 PM.. Reason: p.s.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:16 AM   #24
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I am under the impression that alcohol is an astringent. By that I mean, it attracts moisture...

I believe that if you were to leave an open container with 3 inches of 100% alcohol in it, and return later to find 2 inches of fluid in the container, most would assume that it was 2 inches of 100% alcohol and that 1/3 has evaporated...

This is not so. You would likely have about 2 inches of 50% alcohol. Some of the alcohol that evaporated would have been replaced by the water that was pulled out of the atmosphere.

These numbers may not be exact, but I believe they are close enough...
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
I am under the impression that alcohol is an astringent. By that I mean, it attracts moisture...
You probably mean hygroscopic. And yes, if you don't store in a sealed container that is impervious to moisture, it will absorb water out of the atmosphere. Some plastics will pass water vapor, so I always store (and most alcohol is sold in) tightly sealed metal cans.

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Old 08-28-2009, 10:35 AM   #26
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Default Thanks Glen D

I just have read through your whole message....thanks for the information.
I guess because it is is new (3 weeks today) I was irritated that the sage green came off the inside edge of the center console trim so easily (nothing more than a pant leg fabric) so that was what prompted me to think of using the black and then not worrying about it.

Joe
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:01 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberjack View Post
I just have read through your whole message....thanks for the information.
I guess because it is is new (3 weeks today) I was irritated that the sage green came off the inside edge of the center console trim so easily (nothing more than a pant leg fabric) so that was what prompted me to think of using the black and then not worrying about it.

Joe
Joe, I think the black console trim will stand out a lot more than a worn spot on the sage color. However, if you want to go that route, just buy a replacement black piece from your dealer; as I recall they are $15 or so. Then, if you don't like the look, you can swap the original back. Also, if, after 3 weeks of pant leg rubbing, the paint is off the trim piece, something is terribly wrong -- unless your pants are made from crocus cloth.
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:05 PM   #28
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I used to us spray paint but it looks home made))) If you come close to the seg you see that it's not professional paint job.

We have painted i2 4 times at the professional car painters and then we got the quality. I costs around 200-300 USD for whole segway. Last time it was bright yellow and it was shinning at night
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Old 08-28-2009, 12:13 PM   #29
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OK, may be I will hold off based on your comments. I was thinking black, only because I had read in another thread that if you do it right and clear coat it you really won't have to worry about it and the sage green metallic is hard to match. I wasn't thinking the black would be a horrible contrast, now I will rethink it. Also the center console trim is not $15 it is over $40, Customer Service at Inc told me $41. Thanks again for the feedback, much like a second set of eyes catches an error, a second opinion helps with your thinking. Yeah, I agree 3 weeks for this issue is a bummer.

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Old 08-28-2009, 12:13 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberjack View Post
I guess because it is is new (3 weeks today) I was irritated that the sage green came off the inside edge of the center console trim so easily (nothing more than a pant leg fabric) so that was what prompted me to think of using the black and then not worrying about it.

Joe
Once you get the trim piece in the condition you want, think about adding some security to it's method of attachment. A number of people have reported the trim piece falling off while riding. My wife's i2 didn't encounter this until year two. Oone day I was riding along, passed over a bump, then another. On the second bump, the trim tumbled onto the pavement. That'll scratch your paint! Some people have watched their trim get crushed by the next car before they could retrieve it - or didn't know it had fallen off until long after the event.

I used self-adhesive Velcro to secure the trim to the rubber beneath. A one inch round or square spot works fine positioned just ahead of the factory securing tab at the front edge. I cleaned both parts with (gasp) a paint prep degreaser, then applied the two pieces of Velcro and did not disturb the Velcro for 24 hours. That gave the Velcro time enough to develop a strong enough bond.

Could you paint just the edge of your trim with black or some other color and leave the rest of it green and obtain a good appearance? Perhaps some striping tape could be applied to the edge to cover the chips and provide a durable surface. Striping tape is a very thin plastic tape used in lieu of painted pin stripes. You can purchase it at automotive paint stores or - in smaller quantities at a model airplane supply shop.

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