SegwayChat
Home . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Segway Forums > Segway General Discussion

Notices

Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2016, 10:49 PM   #21
ions82
Member
ions82
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: ABQ, NM
Posts: 309
5 yr Member
Default

My friend owns a Chevy Volt, and he said the super high-tech batteries in that are around $2,500. Of course, that is HEAVILY subsidized by Chevy (as is the purchase price of the car.) My guess is that cars with big batteries will be a lot like the Segways. Regular use will help the batteries last a long time.

Is it safe to say that the overwhelming majority of bad Seg batteries died because they were left IN the machine? I bet that removing them before storage would eliminate 90% of the failures.

From the info I received, none of the Seg battery rebuilders use Saphion cells. It makes me wonder if even factory new batteries have them. Can one still buy brand new Segway batteries? I never even bothered looking into it. For now, I have purchased another used battery and will save up for a set of rebuilts.
ions82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2016, 10:53 PM   #22
Don M
Member
Don M is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ocean Springs MS
Posts: 242
5 yr Member
Default

My big concern with rebuilts compared to an original Valence battery concerns the level of testing that goes into the cells to get a 'matched set' of 92 which gets put together as a completed battery. There's currently a '14 OEM Seg battery on eBay with the computer test sheets showing 22 of the 23 sets of 4 paralleled cells with *exactly* the same voltage showing, down to the 1/100 of a volt - The 23rd set was just 1/100th off the other 22 sets

Does Valence just grab 92 cells and stuff them into a case? . . . . or, more likely, they test a few hundred cells and use 92 of them that match up best? Do those rebuilding Seg batteries just grab 92 cells, or are they just as carefully matching up sets of cells too?

I have no idea what expertise goes into rebuilding a Seg battery, nor any understanding of how Valence is doing it - The results you get with OEM batteries suggests they really know what they're doing though

A well cared for OEM Seg battery can go 10,000 miles and/or 10 years or more - Does anyone think we're ever going to see this sort of reliability out of a rebuilt battery? I guess only time will tell, but personally I kinda doubt it. Myself, I would pay as much or probably more for a 2 year old Valence 2014 battery than I would for any newly rebuilt battery, unless someone can show me some of the computerized test results with all the cells showing voltage readings with a spread of just a few 100'ths or less . . . .

Don
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2016, 02:19 PM   #23
MTOBATTERY
Member
MTOBATTERY has a spectacular aura aboutMTOBATTERY has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York, PA
Posts: 644
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Don,

The voltage being matched that closely only means that the BMS within the battery is balancing the cells properly. It is not an indication of cell quality or state of health of the battery. It would be more important to find out the answers to these two questions. What is the actual tested capacity of the battery your looking at? What is the internal resistance of the assembly? If the resistance is too high the Seg will not start even if the battery has full capacity. It might be a great deal that you found, I just wanted to offer some additional information for your consideration. Information for your reading pleasure. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...nal_resistance

Valence does indeed match their cells. We match our cells, have BMS software, load test, test internal resistance (cell & pack level), and test on Segway equipment. We also have a higher capacity cell which is consistently testing at 15% more capacity (roughly 3-4 extra mile range). Not all battery companies are created equal and certainly in rebuilding some are better than others.
__________________
Warm Regards,
Jason Abel
Battery Builders / MTO Battery
MTOBATTERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2016, 04:51 AM   #24
ions82
Member
ions82
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: ABQ, NM
Posts: 309
5 yr Member
Default

Is internal resistance checked and measured only for packs that are being rebuilt? Is that a critical step in assembling a new pack of batteries? Or, is that more for checking the health of used batteries?

Is it safe to say that one can rely on Segway batteries (factory or rebuilt), or is battery health/life always going to be a bit of a gamble? Being partially paralyzed, I don't want to become too reliant upon this Segway if there is always going to be a chance that it might leave me stranded somewhere. I would be able to walk with it (if it were to shut down), but it wouldn't be pretty or for any more than a very short distance. It seems that regular use and charging is the best way to keep the batteries going. I am certainly looking forward to the next big advances in battery tech. We are going to look back and laugh at the way we used to be so desperate to keep these batteries alive.
ions82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2016, 07:35 AM   #25
MTOBATTERY
Member
MTOBATTERY has a spectacular aura aboutMTOBATTERY has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York, PA
Posts: 644
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Internal resistance is a great state of health indicator on nearly every battery regardless of being OEM or rebuilt. It has been and still is used as the standard way to determine the state of health of car batteries. You can rely on a quality rebuild as much as an OEM. With batteries there is always a potential for spontaneous failure so I believe the likeliness of you having an issue with a Segway battery would likely not be any higher than a battery for a similar device. Regular use and charging is indeed the best way to maintain properly working Segway batteries. Take care.
__________________
Warm Regards,
Jason Abel
Battery Builders / MTO Battery
MTOBATTERY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2017, 01:16 PM   #26
Don M
Member
Don M is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Ocean Springs MS
Posts: 242
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ions82 View Post
Is it safe to say that the overwhelming majority of bad Seg batteries died because they were left IN the machine? I bet that removing them before storage would eliminate 90% of the failures.
Yes, the InfoKey communications puts a small drain on the rear battery and it it's not plugged in once every couple months or so, it will drain that battery flat and likely ruin it. I've got to where I plug them in for an hour or so every couple months if we're not using them

I have a pair of spare Seg batteries. I keep one under the passenger seat in the van so I'll always have an available spare no matter where we are, should one of the Segs quit on us unexpectedly with a bad battery. The other battery I keep in the house, so it's always kept between 70 and 80 degrees. I've been checking the voltage on the one in the house every month or so to see if it's getting any lower. It always remains above 76 volts

After 8 months sitting around without a recharge, I stuck them on a Seg to recharge them (I don't have an off-Seg charger) and both green lights lit up OK, as I expected they would. I didn't keep a close eye on them, but after a couple hours, both were blinking green, so obviously the batteries weren't deeply discharged after sitting for 8 months

I think checking the spares once per year would be perfectly safe, likely once every two years would be also, so long as they're not on a machine - I'll wait a full year next time. I'll let you know next April how it works out!

Don
Don M is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:28 PM.
Copyright © 2002-2023 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive