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Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

View Poll Results: What 3 features would you want the most on the Segway?
Another design - It's still fugly 5 25.00%
Longer range 7 35.00%
Faster / unlimited speed 5 25.00%
Fast charging batteries 9 45.00%
Battery hot-swap 3 15.00%
Cheaper model 8 40.00%
More storage areas 3 15.00%
USB-charging - open battery design 7 35.00%
GPS / App-control 0 0%
OTHER - Write a comment 7 35.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-31-2015, 05:30 PM   #11
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To be fair, I'm not sure the P133 was ever given much of a fighting chance.

I think there's something to be said with putting all the technology into a smaller, nimbler machine like a new P133 (with lithium ions) that is like half the price of the current Segway and meant primarily for indoor and street use. I loved the P133 because it's the closest to feeling like the machine is barely there...

But again, the upfront costs of an entirely new model like this are significant. The company would have to have a solid forecast or new infusion of investments in order to make good on such a hypothetical model.

John
We probably should also add the comment that the P133 seemed to be Dean's favorite machine as well, at least he said it was at one time...
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:21 PM   #12
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From my viewpoint it's going to be difficult to let Segway Inc. do any hardware related changes - as it would require an entire new model. But at the same time - we have nothing to lose except enthusiastic efforts to try to work for such a change, that's why I want to somehow make a gist on all the opinions - a kind of status quo on the current opinions of the Segway.

But this is more than just my/our opinions - it is inherently about the longtime survival of the Segway. I do think some of my "points" are an easy fix such as an open battery design, usb charging, more bags/storage to choose from and an x2 model with no speed limit. Apart from the speed limit we can do all that ourselves - but I don't want to give up on Segway Inc. without a fight because the Segway as transport is still a brilliant idea but high price and not meeting customer needs will be it's death - look at it this way - the Segways most used application is with tour companies - accepting this is a complete failure in business model for Segway Inc - one that should make management at the company deeply troubled, yet they condone it, listing tour companies on their website as being oblivious to the fact that Segways are viewed more as a freak toy than the every mans daily transport.

I can do small things and together we can do a lot. Right now I'm only interested to hear if you think the same - if so - there is a plan to be made, things to do and ultimately push Segway to do what they have to do to survive and even prosper this decennium.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:37 PM   #13
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To convert the battery to an open design is fairly easy - remove the lid - remove the glue - insert vibration damping foam - make a screw lid. This way it's easy to test integrity of the individual cells without throwing the entire battery.

To output the battery is even simpler - make a double circuit - insert a 73V to 5V resistor / adapter and voila - a 5V, 1-2 amp outlet that can power lights, phones or a gps.

People in general think batteries are dangerous to work with and especially Lithium ion cells but this is not true - I'd say it's more dangerous to drive the Segway than working with batteries. You only need a cheap voltmeter, soldering gun and some ingenuity.

I'm sure that someone still will say, oh dangerous and oh problems and at the same time Elon Musk created the Tesla Coupe in 2 years time and 10 times more advanced than all Segway iterations combined

So in fear of changes, Segway Inc will continue to slowly die rather than do the necessary adaptations to meet market need? Really?
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:02 PM   #14
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The biggest hurdle is also the easiest to fix -the speed limit.

Now, we have a great idea of transportation that's easy capable of at least 40kph - but they restricted it to 20 so it is the same speed as running. This is not a joke - this is in the face true. In a country where u can buy an assault rifle, Bugatti Veyron and go to Las Vegas the same day!

So what we have here is a great idea crippled to a stupid toy - Then put a 9k sticker on it - I'm just frank now. I bear with myself every day to use my scoot because that 9km ride just takes soo long time on the Segway - but knowing that limit is invoked because of a lapsus for 14 years is just wrong..

And it can all be fixed in literally seconds. This frustrates me. If we want this change we must tell Segway to do it. Do or die. Anyway possible. We can't abide to regulations alone but also create regulations to make it feasible.

Anyone else feeling the same?
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:48 PM   #15
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The biggest hurdle is also the easiest to fix -the speed limit.

Now, we have a great idea of transportation that's easy capable of at least 40kph - but they restricted it to 20 so it is the same speed as running. This is not a joke - this is in the face true. In a country where u can buy an assault rifle, Bugatti Veyron and go to Las Vegas the same day!

So what we have here is a great idea crippled to a stupid toy - Then put a 9k sticker on it - I'm just frank now. I bear with myself every day to use my scoot because that 9km ride just takes soo long time on the Segway - but knowing that limit is invoked because of a lapsus for 14 years is just wrong..

And it can all be fixed in literally seconds. This frustrates me. If we want this change we must tell Segway to do it. Do or die. Anyway possible. We can't abide to regulations alone but also create regulations to make it feasible.

Anyone else feeling the same?
I do not agree, I think you have the engineering wrong.

I do not think you have any idea of the difficulty in having a one axle device or vehicle stay upright at 40kph. There are many people working on it, not just segway.

I would love to hear of any device, scooter, unicycle, ryno, segway or any other device, with one parallel point of contact with the ground that goes 40kph and stays upright. Please publish any documentation you may have.

Yes, there are speed limits for sidewalks. No, that is not the only reason. You may be able to squeeze a few kph out over the 20 you state, but you cannot go nearly twice as fast with any measure of safety or reliability.

Also, Segway did make a device with these same motors that did go 40kph, but anything over 20 kph was not on two wheels but on 4. It was called the centaur, if I recall. Look it up.

So, I know you want to go faster, but before you rant on about the politics of it all, look into the engineering...

I hope I am wrong, and you find a segway or segway like device that can go that fast as safely as segways do 20. I really do hope you have one you can point to that is available for sale.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:01 PM   #16
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1969 we landed 2 guys on the moon and you mean that there are physical limits to make a 2 wheel (parallel) device make 40 - If this was a world championship it would pass 200! The Segway patroller can do 26kph? The world record for a delta configuration (wide back, narrow front) is 1227kph - so clearly Segway Patroller speed limit is not governed by a physical / engineering limit - believing that is nonsense.

Your argument also relies on an earlier device as a proof it is not possible - this is not viable at all as this would prohibit all inventions to exist because they don't exist.

I understand your concern of safety but tell me, isn't speed up to the driver in the same way as not everyone can handle 300kph in a Corvette? I'm positive I can handle 30 with ease. I see most people trying my Segway hit the speed limit within 5 minutes.

2 x 900w can easily handle 40kph without any trouble.

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Old 03-31-2015, 08:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mryang View Post
1969 we landed 2 guys on the moon and you mean that there are physical limits to make a 2 wheel (parallel) device make 40 - If this was a world championship it would pass 200! The Segway patroller can do 26kph? The world record for a delta configuration (wide back, narrow front) is 1227kph - so clearly Segway Patroller speed limit is not governed by a physical / engineering limit - believing that is nonsense.

Your argument also relies on an earlier device as a proof it is not possible - this is not viable at all as this would prohibit all inventions to exist because they don't exist.

I understand your concern of safety but tell me, isn't speed up to the driver in the same way as not everyone can handle 300kph in a Corvette? I'm positive I can handle 30 with ease. I see most people trying my Segway hit the speed limit within 5 minutes.

2 x 900w can easily handle 40kph without any trouble.
1. I did not know Sweden ever went to the moon. Thanks for the data.
2. I asked for an example of what has been made. You gave none, because there is none. If there was an example of actually making what you want, you would show it.
3. My argument does not only rely on an earlier device, but from knowing and speaking with the actual engineers and chief technology officer at Segway, and actual engineering, not just fantasy.
4. I get the impression I am speaking to a very naive person who does not have any engineering experience. (not all of us are ignorant of actual real world engineering capacities)
5. There is no place in the United States other than on a closed track that anyone can drive a corvette or anything else at 300kph. And a corvette, if capable of going that fast, is not as safe as a segway at 20kph. And, a corvette does not fit the same profile as a segway, because it has 4 wheels that are spaced in such a way that there is static stability. (IF the engine blows, the car can coast to a stop on those four wheels)
6. Your example of a delta configuration, like a three wheel motorcycle, again, does not fit the category of a segway. You cannot say that because a 3 wheel device does a thing, so can a 2 wheel device. They are not the same.

The fact that you fantasize about going this fast on a segway or segway like device does not mean that it can do it. You are not speaking from any position of knowledge, just wishes. Wishes do not make things happen. Engineering does. Give me one example of what you are asking for, that really exists. I beg you, show me that what you say can exist, does actually exist.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:55 PM   #18
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I agree, the batteries are low-lying fruit for a company to come in an offer a "better" version. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Segway to do so -- you have what they consider the best-engineered battery already.

USB port or lighting port is interesting, and again, probably more of an aftermarket thing that anything. But yeah, in terms of "doable" things, I could imagine this is something they could take on if they wanted to.

As for the speed limit, I doubt you'll see that ever changed. Segway spent a lot of money, time and resources getting legislatures across the country to write Segway laws that governed their use largely on sidewalks. If there was a version that could do much higher speeds (even if intended exclusively for off-road, private use), there'd be no way to differentiate them from a "regular" Segway. Meaning the first time someone gets hurt on an "off-road" high-speed Segway in town or on a sidewalk, the company gets sued.

Is it right? Probably not. But that's the liability laws of the U.S. for you... and that's why Segway will likely never release a version that does more than what is codified in all those laws they spent so much time and money getting passed.

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Old 03-31-2015, 09:05 PM   #19
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1. I did not know Sweden ever went to the moon. Thanks for the data.
2. I asked for an example of what has been made. You gave none, because there is none. If there was an example of actually making what you want, you would show it.
3. My argument does not only rely on an earlier device, but from knowing and speaking with the actual engineers and chief technology officer at Segway, and actual engineering, not just fantasy.
4. I get the impression I am speaking to a very naive person who does not have any engineering experience. (not all of us are ignorant of actual real world engineering capacities)
5. There is no place in the United States other than on a closed track that anyone can drive a corvette or anything else at 300kph. And a corvette, if capable of going that fast, is not as safe as a segway at 20kph. And, a corvette does not fit the same profile as a segway, because it has 4 wheels that are spaced in such a way that there is static stability. (IF the engine blows, the car can coast to a stop on those four wheels)
6. Your example of a delta configuration, like a three wheel motorcycle, again, does not fit the category of a segway. You cannot say that because a 3 wheel device does a thing, so can a 2 wheel device. They are not the same.

The fact that you fantasize about going this fast on a segway or segway like device does not mean that it can do it. You are not speaking from any position of knowledge, just wishes. Wishes do not make things happen. Engineering does. Give me one example of what you are asking for, that really exists. I beg you, show me that what you say can exist, does actually exist.
KSagal - if u want a dick measuring contest you win. All your points is spot on. Yeah - I'm naive and have no engineering background. It is impossible to make a Segway go faster than 20. I'm just a deluded dreamer.

Cheers buddy.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:23 PM   #20
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Is there an official Segway engineer or similar on this forum that can add light to the discussion? It would be much appreciated
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