Free at last..from segway batteries anyway

[dorrington]

Hi all,

Progress so far on my gen 1 lithium bms modification.

I have the correct data going to Segway base unit to allow it to run 😁
just need another two cells to give me the correct voltage range.....Oh ....and a charge bleed , current monitoring circuit.

BUT I will be free from segway batteries.

Currently emulating NIMH cells but I have a data set from the Saphion bms aswell.

Can anyone shed any light on what the data packets/ registers actually mean?..

If not then I have a long journey trying to unlock them, if I am to donthis properly instead of just fooling the Segway..


Have fun..

https://youtu.be/7C1JEm17GZc


Kindest regards

Ian

[Don M]

The Gen 1's must be very different?

With an I2, a set of lithium batteries will run you 20 miles or more, last for 10,000 miles or more, are extremely rugged and basically 100% trouble-free. I don't see why anyone would want to be 'free' from OEM Segway batteries??

Don

[dorrington]

Hi Don,

It is simply a matter of cost and availability, Here in the UK I don't see many used batt's on ebay and new ones are not cost effective.

regards,
Ian

[Don M]

Originally Posted by dorrington

. . . . new ones are not cost effective.

I think that remains to be seen. Assuming your original Gen 1 batteries have lasted you for the 10 to 12 years since your machine was built, the time, work and expense of your 'replacements' may very well exceed the cost of new batteries when you look back on it all 10 years from now

You have it working *in theory* with all the parts on the floor, but you haven't packaged them so it would be safe to ride - Will your new set be waterproof and as rugged when they hit something as the original batteries? Do you have any idea how many miles your replacements will give you between charges, or how many miles in total you might get before you need to replace your replacements, again and again - Ten years from now, you may discover that you've actually spent *more* to keep it running than a new set of batteries would have cost

IMO, the 'cost effectiveness' of this endeavor is still to be determined . Good luck with your project and I hope it all turns out exactly as you've planned and you do indeed save some money in the long run

I love the OEM batteries because they are very rugged, nearly waterproof, run the machine for 20 miles or more on a charge. Properly cared for they can last for 10 years and 10,000 miles - That's both 'cost effective' and pretty darned hard to beat, in my book. Of course, other opinions may differ from my own

Don

[ions82]

Originally Posted by dorrington

Hi Don,

It is simply a matter of cost and availability, Here in the UK I don't see many used batt's on ebay and new ones are not cost effective.

regards,
Ian

A lot of people here in the U.S. feel the same way. There are always a fair number of units which have dead batteries and are for sale. To the owners, the cost isn't worth replacing them. As long as they're taken care of, they're great. I REALLY feel for the Tesla owners with bad batts. Perhaps a future Segway will have a series of smaller packs that are more modular (so a few bad cells out of 96 won't render it useless.)

[Don M]

The Tesla has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on the battery pack, so no need to feel sorry for anyone who might experience a bad Tesla battery pack - They'll get a new one for free. I really doubt any Tesla owner has lost any sleep worrying about their battery pack

We have two Mitsubishi electric cars with 16 Kw battery packs and they have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery. A very few owners have been *lucky* enough to have a pack fail . . . . I say 'lucky' because they got a brand new battery put in their cars with many thousands of miles on them, all at no charge - Like your 4 or 5 year old car which gets a brand new engine for free . We haven't been that lucky so far. One car we've had now for almost 5 years, so if it's battery was to go south tomorrow, we would celebrate, literally. The other car we've only had for a little over two years. So far, not any problem with either of them

Don

[ions82]

Originally Posted by Don M

The Tesla has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on the battery pack, so no need to feel sorry for anyone who might experience a bad Tesla battery pack - They'll get a new one for free. I really doubt any Tesla owner has lost any sleep worrying about their battery pack

We have two Mitsubishi electric cars with 16 Kw battery packs and they have a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the battery. A very few owners have been *lucky* enough to have a pack fail . . . . I say 'lucky' because they got a brand new battery put in their cars with many thousands of miles on them, all at no charge - Like your 4 or 5 year old car which gets a brand new engine for free . We haven't been that lucky so far. One car we've had now for almost 5 years, so if it's battery was to go south tomorrow, we would celebrate, literally. The other car we've only had for a little over two years. So far, not any problem with either of them

Don

Wow. I had no idea those vehicles had such warranties for the batteries. They must have a pretty sophisticated BMS that doesn't leave them prone to failure. I bet the failure rate for Segway batteries that have been taken care of Is very low. Has anyone out there had a Segway battery (which has been properly maintained) just give up the ghost prematurely?

I'd love to own an electric car some day, but it would need to have cargo space. I'm surprised we've yet to see work/delivery/utility vehicles that are electric. For now, my Segway has replaced the car for most of my quick errands. I never realized how many sub-10-mile trips I make until I got the Seg.

Still cheaper batteries would be nice. With regular use, I estimate them to cost about $200/year. I try to keep in mind that car insurance is WAY more than that. My mobile phone bill is over three times the "annual" cost of Segway batteries. New batteries aren't cheap, but they are still a good deal compared to a lot of other stuff we pay for.

[rotorblades]

[QUOTE=dorrington;240359]Hi all,

Pro it sounds to me that u have this"wired"is there any way u could build batteries without the lithium replacing it with nicads or whatever=
so us disabled folks could fly taking our segs along?but yet still charge and fit 2nd generation segs hopefully not looking like a seg battery

[dorrington]

Hi Rotorblades,

YES! ...exactly. all that is required is to add the required data stream to the bms software and nimh simulate lithium.

I have a lot of time to spend decoding the existing data rather than simply copying it but that's "fun"

I have three i67, one i180 and a p133.
All arrived with out of life batteries and corroded bms p.c.b., now factor in the cost of new batteries (nimh not available) and you may see why I have reverse engineered the nimh bms to make replacements and experimented with lithium batt's in place of nimh with modified bms.

As far as safety and longevity are concerned, I can ensure the correct charging voltage curve is respected and overdischarge is prevented along with voltage and current monitoring. I will use the existing cases as they are quite robust (I have taken silicone molds and might try cast resin ones just for fun) and I also have quire a few lying around!

I have no idea how long they will last but if the voltage profiles are respected then apart from any quality issues I see no reason why they should fail premturely.

After all, the p133 is dead in the water without a new bms and cells, these smaller batteries are getting very hard to find, luckily the bms pcb is identical to the ones used on the i series (I have proved this to myself) So at least there is a chance of keeping the cute little machine operational.

And really, it is more of a pastime than anything else, I don't know of anyone else that has worked out the bms data in this way, so that's kinda cool.

Many thanks for your interest.

Ian

[dorrington]

Off topic alert!.......

I also drive a Vauxhall Ampera (Chevy Volt to you guys across the pond)..100,000 mile or eight year guarantee no less...so I think they expect the batteries to last at least twice that.