Safety shutdown quiz

[SegwayUtah]

Hmm; well, here's my experience on "low battery" shutdown:

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4067

[W9GFO]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by Sid Viscous

Some versions can do htat yes. But you've induced the shutdown (With wet fingers and a screw and a keyport I imagine) I assume you had battery juice left.[/quote/

Yes, plenty of juice.

But in a real shutdown it will eventually drop you on your face.

Why you would want to do that I don't know.

In the manual it says;

WARNING!

You have 10 seconds from the start of the
Stick Shake Warning to come to a controlled
stop and safely dismount before the
Segway HT will automatically shut down.
The Segway HT will shut down immediately
if it is tilted back 20* or more during Safety
Shutdown. Otherwise, the Segway HT will
not shut down until it has come to a stop.

It also says;

User Response

Come to a controlled stop, then
dismount and discontinue
operation. You have 10 seconds
from the start of the Stick Shake
Warning to come to a controlled
stop and safely dismount.

First it says that it won't shutdown until you come to a stop then it says you have 10 seconds to stop before it shuts down.

I just wanted to know what the reality was.

Hopefully anyone reading this is bright enough to not continue riding when it wants to shutdown.

Rich H

[Sid Viscous]

W9 take this for what it is. It's not a flame, just want to bring some reality to the Segway experience.

A Cessna will enter a stall at about 65 mph. They say this in the manual (just geussing at the actuall speed) if you just bought a brand new Cessna would you go flying around at just above 65Mph and slowly decelerate to see if it was true?

Your car manual says you can get approx 400 miles on a tank of Gas. Would you keep driving around until it died to see if it was true? (Keeping in mind this can cause damage to your car) Do you test the airbag in your car to make sure it goes off exactly when the manual says it will?

Lots of Segway owners get excited and want to know everything, and it very much becomes part of thier personality. It's a new and exciting thing and people get worked up, which is great. I feel the same way with my car. But in the end the Segway is just a glorified scooter with some neat technology inside. Yes it can do some cool things. And sure I've done some wacky things on the Segway, but in a way I was supposed to. I've also been responsible for watching people ride Segways in trials and determine the reason for falls. over 50% of the time after a fall I asked what happened, they told me, then I looked at them and said "Why did you do that?" and they said, "I wanted to see what it would do." Sure having a Segway shut off is a lot less danferous than putting an airplane into a stall, but that doesn't mean you can't get hurt.

I geuss my point is. Ride the Segway, know about safety shut offs, hopefully that was gone over when you were trained, but there is no reason to go out and do it just to "See what it would do". Keeping in mind that even a small fall can break the control shaft pretty easily. And it is exspensive to replace. Not to mention you. Even a sprained wrist is somethign to avoid.

Yeah the manual has different wording, it was written when the code was in flux, so things changed and it wasn't always picked up in the diffrerent revisions (I had people calling me up saying the humidty limits didn't make a whole lot of sense, does anal retentive have a hyphen?).

It's akin to people that keep trying to lean over the handlebars trying to "See what it would do" My manual says my car has a top speed of 136Mph. I have yet to see if that's true. Because it's irrelevant.

Suffice to say. When you get a red frowny face, stick shale and beeping the engineers put that in for a reason. Get off.

Otherwise if it's green and smiling, ride it and enjoy it.

[W9GFO]

quote:Originally posted by Sid Viscous
A Cessna will enter a stall at about 65 mph. They say this in the manual (just geussing at the actuall speed) if you just bought a brand new Cessna would you go flying around at just above 65Mph and slowly decelerate to see if it was true?

Actually, yes I would. Anyone flying an aircraft without having experienced a stall (under controlled conditions, high altitude) is missing a valuable bit of training. I would do this in a brand new plane to see/verify that it responded as I expect.

quote:
I geuss my point is. Ride the Segway, know about safety shut offs, hopefully that was gone over when you were trained,

I did ask in traing. The trainer did not know the answer. Now, I know the answer and so do a lot of others.

quote:
It's akin to people that keep trying to lean over the handlebars trying to "See what it would do"

Nah, that is testing limits. Not really the same as figuring out a shutdown sequence.

quote:
Otherwise if it's green and smiling, ride it and enjoy it.

What if it's red and smiling?

Rich H

[Sid Viscous]

"Anyone flying an aircraft without having experienced a stall (under controlled conditions, high altitude) is missing a valuable bit of training."

That's part of the training. Not part of regular ownership. So just like the Segway, do it once to know what to do, but not for kicks.

But if you say you didn't get it in training that's a differnt story.

If it's red and smiling and nothing else it just means it's going into shutdown soon.

[Stewbonz]

I ran the batteries down, untill a saftey shutoff, on one of my Segways. After all the bars dissappeared ,the light changed color, then slowed down, beeped etc., then shutdown. I was attempting to drain my batteries. Probably a good idea to do this once on each machine to be sure it is working properly during the warranty period. Agreed?

JEFF JARVIS
Carmel Valley Ca

[W9GFO]

quote:Originally posted by Sid Viscous

That's part of the training. Not part of regular ownership. So just like the Segway, do it once to know what to do, but not for kicks.

Are you a pilot Sid? A stall is a "non-event", provided you have the altitude. You could most likely do just fine without ever familiarizing yourself with the stall charateristics of your new plane. I haven't flown a new Cesna, I am not convinced that it would handle exactly as a 30 year old plane as is commonly used in training. One day you may encounter a situation where knowing the precise handling characteristics of your aircraft will save your life.

To suggest that stalling a new aircraft is irresponsible, is like saying that testing the ABS on your new car is irresponsible. I prefer to know what will happen in an emergency stop.

As for the Segway shutdown, I haven't yet thought up a scenario where you would need to continue riding during shutdown. There may exist a situation where you would be better off going for a few extra seconds rather than jumping off. If I should ever encounter that situation (extrememly unlikely) I will know what to expect.

[SegwayUtah]

W9GFO,

The batteries on my primary rider have died on me lots of times (love that Segway too much apparently). I have had one big occasion to continue riding when it went into shutdown--crossing streets and uncontrolled intersections. Luckily, it'll let you go at least the distance of an intersection when it first goes into low-battery shutdown before it starts getting too cranky

That said, it's probably a good thing to have a healthy respect for the machine when it wants you to get off.

Chris

[Sid Viscous]

"A stall is a "non-event", provided you have the altitude" A provided you have the altitude, and it also depends on the type of plane. How about a dead motor. Yes pilots practice that as well. but with altitude you have time. With the Segway you do not. You cannot "recover" from a Segway shutting down.

A safety shutdown is more than an emergency stop. A safety shurdown is a dead engine, a low battery, or other such thing. I cannot imagine any situation which would require you to ride it out. Mainly because you can push the Segway faster than it will ride at that speed.

Keep in mind, I said if you did not experience a safety shutdown in training then what you did is fine. However. the whether it will shut down in 10 seconds or keep going issue, is irrelevant. when it happens, get off. Next time it won't be because you induced a transient system fault that is no longer there. Staying on it could very well lead to it dropping you.

The reason why it was changed to the fact that it can keep going was mainly because of people like you. Older revs of the software would drop you after 10 seconds. It's not fun, trust me.

[W9GFO]

quote:Originally posted by Sid Viscous
I cannot imagine any situation which would require you to ride it out.

Neither can I, as I said.

quote:Keep in mind, I said if you did not experience a safety shutdown in training then what you did is fine. However. the whether it will shut down in 10 seconds or keep going issue, is irrelevant.

Irrevelant enough to put in the manual "Otherwise, the Segway HT will
not shut down until it has come to a stop" ?

quote:
The reason why it was changed to the fact that it can keep going was mainly because of people like you.

People like me? That didn't sound very nice.