SegwayChat
Home . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Segway Forums > Segway General Discussion

Notices

Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-17-2014, 03:32 PM   #11
MagiMike
Member
MagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the roughMagiMike is a jewel in the rough
 
MagiMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston, TX, USA.
Posts: 701
5 yr Member SegwayFest Attendee
Red face I stand corrected

Picture me surprised. Guess I'm not to old to learn something new.
Thank you for teaching me.
MagiMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #12
dale@thecoys.net
Senior Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
5 yr Member
Default

Right you are. I'm not really sure what that battery is doing, since this is non-volatile memory. It's interesting that the specification sheet says (about the battery):

"if the lithium is exhausted for any reason, the ROM can still be read
normally."

Apparently, the battery is only needed if you are changing the contents - because of the two-step programming process.
dale@thecoys.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 02:39 PM   #13
curious1
Junior Member
curious1 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 39
5 yr Member
Default Guess I am not too old to teach


May be this is why I am also a teacher

BR,
R
curious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 09:47 PM   #14
curious1
Junior Member
curious1 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 39
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
Right you are. I'm not really sure what that battery is doing, since this is non-volatile memory. It's interesting that the specification sheet says (about the battery):

"if the lithium is exhausted for any reason, the ROM can still be read
normally."

Apparently, the battery is only needed if you are changing the contents - because of the two-step programming process.
I have looked into this one
The Battery is not related to programming it is because this kind of I-button has NVM (internal SRAM) - this holds the memory of SRAM and another oscillator , my assumption is that if battery is dead this key will not work any more
Thanks,
R
curious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2014, 10:16 PM   #15
dale@thecoys.net
Senior Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
5 yr Member
Default

So, you are disagreeing with the specifications?

"4096 bits of read/write nonvolatile memory. "

"Memory 4K Bits
Memory Type NV SRAM"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NvSRAM

And quoting Page 2 of the Specification Sheet at http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/a...992-DS1993.pdf

"The block diagram (Figure 1) shows the parasite-powered circuitry. This circuitry steals power whenever
the data input is high. The data line provides sufficient power as long as the specified timing and voltage
requirements are met. The advantages of parasite power are two-fold: 1) by parasiting off this input,
lithium is conserved, and 2) if the lithium is exhausted for any reason, the ROM can still be read
normally."

[lithium = lithium battery]

Perhaps you are correct. Maybe they are just referring to the front-end ROM (serial number, etc.) and not the NVRAM. I have just never heard of that failure mode. I'll have to ask my friend who works at ibuttonlink about that. And my 2005-vintage Segway keys are doing just fine (so far).

Last edited by dale@thecoys.net; 09-18-2014 at 10:25 PM..
dale@thecoys.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 11:06 AM   #16
curious1
Junior Member
curious1 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 39
5 yr Member
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
So, you are disagreeing with the specifications?

"4096 bits of read/write nonvolatile memory. "

"Memory 4K Bits
Memory Type NV SRAM"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NvSRAM

And quoting Page 2 of the Specification Sheet at http://www.embeddeddatasystems.com/a...992-DS1993.pdf

"The block diagram (Figure 1) shows the parasite-powered circuitry. This circuitry steals power whenever
the data input is high. The data line provides sufficient power as long as the specified timing and voltage
requirements are met. The advantages of parasite power are two-fold: 1) by parasiting off this input,
lithium is conserved, and 2) if the lithium is exhausted for any reason, the ROM can still be read
normally."

[lithium = lithium battery]

Perhaps you are correct. Maybe they are just referring to the front-end ROM (serial number, etc.) and not the NVRAM. I have just never heard of that failure mode. I'll have to ask my friend who works at ibuttonlink about that. And my 2005-vintage Segway keys are doing just fine (so far).
You have one more year!
Catch me in 2016

I got data from engineers directly
Thanks,
R
curious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 11:26 AM   #17
dale@thecoys.net
Senior Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curious1 View Post
You have one more year!
Catch me in 2016
R
Actually, I have a "backup plan". A few years ago, I wanted to make "blue keys" for my two XTs. I wanted to customize the parameters. Speed the same as the "full speed" key, but less sensitive turn rate (i.e., finer/easier control of turns). So, I purchased the hardware, got the software, bought some ibuttons, and did that. And also stored the "serial number" settings from the original buttons.

So, if/when the "original" buttons quit working, I can just buy some more buttons, and program them.
dale@thecoys.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 04:23 PM   #18
dale@thecoys.net
Senior Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
5 yr Member
Default

Not that I doubted the answer supplied by Curious1:

My source at ibuttonlink.com confirms that - if the battery dies, only the ROM of the ibutton can be read. That's essentially only the unique serial number of the button, and has nothing to do with the Segway.

Of course, the internal NV SRAM still has the Segway key data. So, just use a tiny can opener, open the button, and replace the battery......
dale@thecoys.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 05:28 PM   #19
curious1
Junior Member
curious1 is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Israel
Posts: 39
5 yr Member
Default battery

Hi,
The battery is weld to some metal,
You can hardly separate the parts,
It is almost impossible to replace to new battery (it was not build for battery replacement)
If you will look again at the picture I sent you will see one battery inside and another on the side (I have tried to replace it), any way the key did not work (however I don't know for sure if the fault reason from the beginning is related to battery, since the battery was not empty)
Thanks,
R
curious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2014, 06:47 PM   #20
dale@thecoys.net
Senior Member
dale@thecoys.net will become famous soon enough
 
dale@thecoys.net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Lee's Summit, MO, USA
Posts: 1,217
5 yr Member
Default

My comment was meant to be a bit sarcastic.

And I certainly don't think it would be simple.

And if you could do the replacement, then you would have to figure out how to get it to "connect" properly to one of the fixtures used for reading/programming.

I'm quite glad that I have the capability to make new keys for my XTs, without having to have an old key to copy.
dale@thecoys.net is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:30 AM.
Copyright © 2002-2023 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive