Lithium Batteries / Cold

MTOBATTERY · 01-04-2010, 11:26 PM

What type of mileage are you guys getting out of Lithiums when the temp is around 30-40 degrees? I have a customer getting about 13mi on Brand New Segway Lithiums (we didn't recondition, rebuild, or anything) in 40 degree weather and I don't personally think that is too far out of line but I am basing that statement off other applications we have done with lithiums where this was noted. The only thing we did was load test them to validate capacity and they are putting out the full capacity when discharged at 70 degrees. Any thoughts, comments, or experiences that I can share with the customer?

Joushou · 01-05-2010, 07:18 AM

Well, with a little aggressive riding in hot weather, on an x2 (4psi), I got 14-15mi (The only time I remembered to reset the trip-computer before going all out...)...

So, assuming the cold kicks in, he rides a little aggressive, and it's an i2, I think it's fair...

DarthSegVator · 01-05-2010, 11:20 AM

SegVator has been working on a battery warmer solution for cold weather operation. I have to keep my Segways in the garage and they don't like the cold Wisconsin winters much. Also, the X2 is nearly impossible to get through most residential doorways.

I think we have come up with a fairly simple solution which will keep the battery temp between 65 F and 80 F while not in use. Thermostatically controlled so you can leave it plugged-in regardless of ambient temp. Installation/removal takes about 10-15 minutes, at most.

It has worked great for me so far and allows any Segway model to be ready to go in cold weather and use when it's nice enough outside to enjoy a glide.

The "blanket" is 5" wide x 28" long and is strapped to the underside of the batteries from the control shaft to the rear of the platform. It doesn't hold much heat while gliding but will keep the batteries warm when you start out. The heat generated during gliding has been enough to not be a problem for me.

The thermostat keeps the batteries between 65 F and 80 F. From the information I've been able to gather, 80 F is the optimum temp for battery performance, in general.

Many battery blankets don't have a thermostat and could "overheat" the batteries which could be very dangerous. Hence the built-in thermostat. You can leave it plugged-in full time while charging and not have to worry.

It really only takes about 5 minutes to remove/install....I put 10-15 min. for the first time as to not overstate how easy it is.

The Battery Warmer is made by Phillips & Temro Industries and called a Temro ZeroStart - part # 280 0055 - 50 watt/125 volt - 71 cm/28". http://www.zerostart.com/UserFiles/F...ct_catalog.pdf - Page 74. (make sure it has a thermostat).

I then utilize a "tree" bungee (from a new tree stake set) to hold it on to the bottom of the Segway. All told, probably have about $75.00 into the kit and it works great. Easy to install/remove between seasons too.

With a Gen 2, the first top loop around the shaft is made large enough to go around the center console as well. So it does fit both Gen 1 and Gen 2 machines. Get the longer "tree" stake kit because it does require a rather long bungee to go around and then strap to the shaft.

Here are some photos:

Warming1.jpg

Warming2.jpg

Warming3.jpg

Warming4.jpg

Warming5.jpg

DarthSegVator · 01-05-2010, 11:21 AM

More photos:

Warming6.jpg

Warming7.jpg

Warming8.jpg

Warming9.jpg

SegVator Warming Blanket 1.jpg

MTOBATTERY · 01-05-2010, 04:21 PM

Very cool!......or hot

Civicsman · 01-05-2010, 04:39 PM

Assuming your 50 watt heater runs about 75% of the time in your garage, that's like leaving a 37 watt light bulb plugged in 24/7 during winter months.

Don't mention this to your "green" friends.

DarthSegVator · 01-05-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Civicsman

Don't mention this to your "green" friends.

I don't have any of those.

MTOBATTERY · 01-05-2010, 07:18 PM

Friends.....or just green ones?

doctorkurtschleg · 01-05-2010, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTOBATTERY

What type of mileage are you guys getting out of Lithiums when the temp is around 30-40 degrees? I have a customer getting about 13mi on Brand New Segway Lithiums (we didn't recondition, rebuild, or anything) in 40 degree weather and I don't personally think that is too far out of line but I am basing that statement off other applications we have done with lithiums where this was noted. The only thing we did was load test them to validate capacity and they are putting out the full capacity when discharged at 70 degrees. Any thoughts, comments, or experiences that I can share with the customer?

With my year old i2 I maxed out just at 24 miles during last summer. Just the other day at about 42 degrees I got over 16 miles with 1 bar to spare, so probably could have gotten another 2 miles maybe.

MTOBATTERY · 01-06-2010, 03:39 PM

Attached are load test results at roughly 70deg temp and 35deg temps. Huge difference in capacity when it's cold.

01-04-2010, 11:26 PM	#1
MTOBATTERY Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: York, PA Posts: 644	Lithium Batteries / Cold What type of mileage are you guys getting out of Lithiums when the temp is around 30-40 degrees? I have a customer getting about 13mi on Brand New Segway Lithiums (we didn't recondition, rebuild, or anything) in 40 degree weather and I don't personally think that is too far out of line but I am basing that statement off other applications we have done with lithiums where this was noted. The only thing we did was load test them to validate capacity and they are putting out the full capacity when discharged at 70 degrees. Any thoughts, comments, or experiences that I can share with the customer? __________________ Warm Regards, Jason Abel Battery Builders / MTO Battery

01-05-2010, 07:18 AM	#2
Joushou Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Charlottenlund, Denmark Posts: 749	Well, with a little aggressive riding in hot weather, on an x2 (4psi), I got 14-15mi (The only time I remembered to reset the trip-computer before going all out...)... So, assuming the cold kicks in, he rides a little aggressive, and it's an i2, I think it's fair... __________________ The wise speak when they have something to say. Fools speak when they have to say something. *Reality has been scientifically proven impossible.*

01-05-2010, 11:20 AM	#3
DarthSegVator Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 688	Use a Battery Blanket SegVator has been working on a battery warmer solution for cold weather operation. I have to keep my Segways in the garage and they don't like the cold Wisconsin winters much. Also, the X2 is nearly impossible to get through most residential doorways. I think we have come up with a fairly simple solution which will keep the battery temp between 65 F and 80 F while not in use. Thermostatically controlled so you can leave it plugged-in regardless of ambient temp. Installation/removal takes about 10-15 minutes, at most. It has worked great for me so far and allows any Segway model to be ready to go in cold weather and use when it's nice enough outside to enjoy a glide. The "blanket" is 5" wide x 28" long and is strapped to the underside of the batteries from the control shaft to the rear of the platform. It doesn't hold much heat while gliding but will keep the batteries warm when you start out. The heat generated during gliding has been enough to not be a problem for me. The thermostat keeps the batteries between 65 F and 80 F. From the information I've been able to gather, 80 F is the optimum temp for battery performance, in general. Many battery blankets don't have a thermostat and could "overheat" the batteries which could be very dangerous. Hence the built-in thermostat. You can leave it plugged-in full time while charging and not have to worry. It really only takes about 5 minutes to remove/install....I put 10-15 min. for the first time as to not overstate how easy it is. The Battery Warmer is made by Phillips & Temro Industries and called a Temro ZeroStart - part # 280 0055 - 50 watt/125 volt - 71 cm/28". http://www.zerostart.com/UserFiles/F...ct_catalog.pdf - Page 74. (make sure it has a thermostat). I then utilize a "tree" bungee (from a new tree stake set) to hold it on to the bottom of the Segway. All told, probably have about $75.00 into the kit and it works great. Easy to install/remove between seasons too. With a Gen 2, the first top loop around the shaft is made large enough to go around the center console as well. So it does fit both Gen 1 and Gen 2 machines. Get the longer "tree" stake kit because it does require a rather long bungee to go around and then strap to the shaft. Here are some photos: Warming1.jpg Warming2.jpg Warming3.jpg Warming4.jpg Warming5.jpg Last edited by DarthSegVator; 01-05-2010 at 11:54 AM..

01-05-2010, 11:21 AM	#4
DarthSegVator Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 688	More photos: Warming6.jpg Warming7.jpg Warming8.jpg Warming9.jpg SegVator Warming Blanket 1.jpg Last edited by DarthSegVator; 01-05-2010 at 11:45 AM..

01-05-2010, 04:21 PM	#5
MTOBATTERY Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: York, PA Posts: 644	Very cool!......or hot __________________ Warm Regards, Jason Abel Battery Builders / MTO Battery

01-05-2010, 04:39 PM	#6
Civicsman Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Freedonia! Posts: 1,703	Assuming your 50 watt heater runs about 75% of the time in your garage, that's like leaving a 37 watt light bulb plugged in 24/7 during winter months. Don't mention this to your "green" friends.

01-05-2010, 07:18 PM	#8
MTOBATTERY Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: York, PA Posts: 644	Friends.....or just green ones? __________________ Warm Regards, Jason Abel Battery Builders / MTO Battery

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