Developing the Segway into the next decennium

[mryang]

I love my Segway. From the first second I saw it I knew it would be my kind of ride. All electric. Possible to charge with solar power, it's silent and very capable. I try to do the trade off and using my scooter less in favour of zero emission transports, but sometimes it's hard.

But something is missing, and when I start to think of it, there are literally tonnes of things I miss and wonder - why arent Segway Inc. doing it? What is stopping the development of the Segway? It was then I realised that without a growing user base, the development of the Segway - neither product or company - might survive the next decennium.

So, what's wrong then? What kind of problems hinders its growth?

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01. TOO EXPENSIVE. The price is similar to product launch 2001, which means, that Segway Inc. hasn't succeeded to improve on manufacturing processes AT ALL.

SUGGESTION: Move the entire manufacturing to China. Company should focus on R&D and not manufacturing / assembly. Can the Iphone be produced entirely in Taiwan/HK/China, then the Segway can too.
******************************
02. There are no cheaper models. The model variation line up is as exciting as the 2001 Toyota Corolla, thus still making it accessible to only a few.

SUGGESTIONS: Create a cheaper model with less range, less weight, cheaper materials, in a goal to grow the user base.
******************************
03. It's too slow (which is the single most annoying issue for me). Yes, this has to do with government regulations but there must be work-arounds. Can Ducati release a motorcycle with 200hp and 320km/h top speed, then there must be possible to release a Segway that can do 40kph for the road.

SUGGESTION: Create a model that has UNREGULATED speed, for example the X2 that is for off-road drive anyways. It must be up to the user how fast we can go. No one is driving 300kph on a motorcycle anyways!

******************************
04. The Segway is too proprietary and doesn't allow any modification or adaptations, either physically or in software. This hinders those enthusiasts that is so important for a product to succeed.

SUGGESTION: Open up for 3rd party development and team up with other small start-ups that wants to do it. Release more color options.
******************************
05. LACK OF R&D.
The i2 SE is a joke. I mean it. In 8 years of the Segway i2 this is what they came up with? Really?

- The lights are STILL a joke
- Still no USB-port / charging
- Same stupid key-design (What was DK at Segway thinking when he designed a circular key, with evenly distributed buttons that's akin to impossible to understand in the dark, that is water sensitive, fall sensitive and takes 3 seconds to start? The key should be a 3 button design with total ODO on the motherboard under console trim.
- Same stupid alarm design (Why must the Segway be ON for the alarm to be active?)
- No storage space or integrated holders (a big design flaw)
- NO built-in GPS
- An app would be great to see Segway status
- Same stupid battery design - ONE cell gets F-U and the entire battery is waste - is this environmentally friendly thinking? And to make matters worse - all cells in the battery is swimming in this pool of glue that makes it really really difficult to service. Battery tech is easy but Segway makes it difficult.

Batteries should be:
EASY TO SERVICE
HOTSWAP
SUPER-CHARGING CAPABLE (A Tesla can be charged faster than a Segway...wtf?)
AND WHY ON EARTH 73V?

06. FEW CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS
So, we have 2 colors for the 2015 line-up.
A FERRARI can be had in 22 different colours!!
And it's only 2 parts that needs colour - CONSOLE TRIM and LeanSteer Frame.

******************************
07. COMPANY ERRORS
Segway Inc. should focus on development and focus on HOW TO MAKE SEGWAY for a larger user base. Never mind the competition - you should outcompete competition by strong R&D and product development. Look at Apple - did it help to sue Samsung? No, it didn't. Do they still dominate and lead the smartphone segment? Yes. In fact, the competition has helped Apple because users need choices.

The Segway is still a bit Nerdy-looking. That is a big problem.
The Segway's lack of new features makes it dying.
The direction to go on E-bicycles is a MISTAKE. The competition is utterly FIERCE and there is no exciting to do except to deliver an expensive machine with stunning design. Are they doing it - no.
Segway should focus on developing the Segway to make a feature-rich, open source, cool-looking device, with zero-emission goals (solar panel charging, easy to maintain battery tech so forth.

****************************

THE GOOD!
The build is insanely high. Quality wise this thing will last forever. Kudos!

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MY CONTRIBUTION

- I'm developing a LED-kit and I'm gonna make a video so anyone can do it cheap
- I'm going to test a new battery maintenance design (because I also have a low voltage battery)
- I'm also investing in a new small portable solar power plant to see what it's like to charge the Segway entirely off the grid.
- Involving more in this community which I think is great BTW!

Please comment with your thoughts about my ideas and feedback on how to grow Segway into the next decennium!

happy gliding and see you around,

Marcus

[JohnM]

Jeez, Marcus, another rehash of the same old Segway weaknesses? Hasn't this same discussion been beaten to death every 6 months for the past 10 years? Sorry, but even I'm tired of it.

[mryang]

I count you out then John, I'm not expecting everyone to be a part for improvements, cheers buddy and happy gliding

[Tritium]

Although it's been oversaid, it needs ACTION.
Us talking about it here likely will not have any effect on what happens.

[mryang]

Totally agree. But first I need to know how many here is in the same boat with the same opinions as me and wants a change OR maybe most here happy and then I just know. And tragically, that would all make sense.

[eJM]

I'm with you on most points, mryang.

[JohnG]

There are, of course, good reasons why the company hasn't done the things you're wanting, and most of them boil down to the economics of the situation. Changes in tooling are expensive, and the company doesn't appear to be in a place where they can expend a lot of money on such changes.

I think you're more likely to see incremental improvements, as they've done in the past. And like Apple, you're likely not be seeing any "openness" in their platform anytime soon.

John

PS -
BTW, Dean Kamen doesn't work at Segway nor is he involved in any of the design components. Nor has he been for over a decade.

[KSagal]

Mryang,

Let me start by saying I love your enthusiasm, and while I believe I like many of the suggestions you make, I also think you are being a bit naive to think that you are the first to think of or suggest these changes. I invite you to look back onto the years of history on this site alone, and you will find many if not all of your suggestions, most posed multiple times.

Furthermore, the readership of this website, while substantial and enthusiastic, is a small fraction of the buying persons who have purchased segways...

Originally Posted by mryang

I love my Segway. From the first second I saw it I knew it would be my kind of ride. All electric. Possible to charge with solar power, it's silent and very capable. I try to do the trade off and using my scooter less in favour of zero emission transports, but sometimes it's hard.

But something is missing, and when I start to think of it, there are literally tonnes of things I miss and wonder - why arent Segway Inc. doing it? What is stopping the development of the Segway? It was then I realised that without a growing user base, the development of the Segway - neither product or company - might survive the next decennium.

So, what's wrong then? What kind of problems hinders its growth?

******************************
01. TOO EXPENSIVE. The price is similar to product launch 2001, which means, that Segway Inc. hasn't succeeded to improve on manufacturing processes AT ALL.

SUGGESTION: Move the entire manufacturing to China. Company should focus on R&D and not manufacturing / assembly. Can the Iphone be produced entirely in Taiwan/HK/China, then the Segway can too.

This topic comes up very often, if not the most often. Having China manufacture this item may sound good, but then control is lost on the technology, unless a great deal is spent on creating a new factory and process in China. That may be economically feasible if millions of units are sold, but when the number is in the tens of thousands, that investment will never come back.
******************************
02. There are no cheaper models. The model variation line up is as exciting as the 2001 Toyota Corolla, thus still making it accessible to only a few.

SUGGESTIONS: Create a cheaper model with less range, less weight, cheaper materials, in a goal to grow the user base.

Again, this was tried. The P133 was smaller, had less range and speed, and was cheaper. It was also discontinued, even though many on this site seemed to like it. I believe it is again where reality is different than concept. Of course, it may not have been cheaper enough, but that still does not change the fact that this idea was tried and failed.
******************************
03. It's too slow (which is the single most annoying issue for me). Yes, this has to do with government regulations but there must be work-arounds. Can Ducati release a motorcycle with 200hp and 320km/h top speed, then there must be possible to release a Segway that can do 40kph for the road.

SUGGESTION: Create a model that has UNREGULATED speed, for example the X2 that is for off-road drive anyways. It must be up to the user how fast we can go. No one is driving 300kph on a motorcycle anyways!

The theory on this is great, but the technology to respond to a hole or rock in the path of a segway moving at 10 mph and keep it upright and not dropping the rider on their face is tremendous. I do not have the math nor absolute statistics, but for each mile per hour faster, the problems rise exponentially. The power, technology and processing speed needed to to correct for a fault at 20 mph (just considering the momentum of the masses involved) is not twice that of 10 mph, but more more on a scale of hundreds of times.

******************************
04. The Segway is too proprietary and doesn't allow any modification or adaptations, either physically or in software. This hinders those enthusiasts that is so important for a product to succeed.

SUGGESTION: Open up for 3rd party development and team up with other small start-ups that wants to do it. Release more color options.

Unlike Apple, who do not do what you suggest anyway, a segway that has been modified in any way by an outsider, may result in a person falling face first into moving traffic. Opening up the technology to modification is only inviting a flock of lawsuits of people who modified the segway and hurt themselves, and sue. Even without modifications, people do hurt themselves and lie about it being the segway at fault.
******************************
05. LACK OF R&D.
The i2 SE is a joke. I mean it. In 8 years of the Segway i2 this is what they came up with? Really?

- The lights are STILL a joke Actually, these are the first lights that are integrated. That may be too little to make you happy, but they are new.
- Still no USB-port / charging This is not as easy as you think, as it would require transformers and also open the base to potential compromise. I might think an aux battery for accessories could be added that is concurrently charged by plugging in the same cord would be a better path...
- Same stupid key-design (What was DK at Segway thinking when he designed a circular key, with evenly distributed buttons that's akin to impossible to understand in the dark, I have no problem understanding mine, as the power key has a unique texture, so that orients it without seeing itthat is water sensitive, fall sensitive ( I have not put mine in water, and Segway offers a rubber case to make it much less fall sensitive, much like a case you put on your cell phone for the same reason.) and takes 3 seconds to start? The key should be a 3 button design You are entitled to your opinion, which this is, there is no inherent advantage to 3 buttons over 4. with total ODO on the motherboard under console trim.Odo is on the mother board, it is just displayed on the only display the segway has. Adding another display that is not visible when gliding will not substantially improve the segway in my opinion.)
- Same stupid alarm design (Why must the Segway be ON for the alarm to be active?) No comment, other than other devices do not offer them either, that I know of. Most consumer products do not protect themselves from being carried away, while most use a key of some sort for operation, just like the segway.
- No storage space or integrated holders (a big design flaw) I believe this is not accurate. Segway offers storage and cargo solutions.
- NO built-in GPS This is true, but they have offered it as an option over the years, and most phones now have that as an option as well.
- An app would be great to see Segway status I am not sure what status you want to see. You want battery capacity on the net?
- Same stupid battery design - ONE cell gets F-U and the entire battery is waste - is this environmentally friendly thinking? And to make matters worse - all cells in the battery is swimming in this pool of glue that makes it really really difficult to service. Battery tech is easy but Segway makes it difficult.

Batteries should be:
EASY TO SERVICE If easy to service, and people do their own repairs, and the machine fails in the middle of traffic, do you really think that those same people will say it is their fault, or the fault of Segway?
HOTSWAP Again, someone will try to do this, fail, or swap in a dead battery, and then blame segway. Again, this is a device that is carrying a person, and any option that can result in a sudden loss of power is a dangerous one. (at least to some people and from a liability perspective)
SUPER-CHARGING CAPABLE (A Tesla can be charged faster than a Segway...wtf?) Here I agree, the technology exists to do this better.
AND WHY ON EARTH 73V?also a good question. I do not know the answer.

06. FEW CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS
So, we have 2 colors for the 2015 line-up.
A FERRARI can be had in 22 different colours!!
And it's only 2 parts that needs colour - CONSOLE TRIM and LeanSteer Frame.are you trying to make it more expensive or less expensive. Comparing it to a Ferrari is hardly a tactic that is likely to be thought of as making it mainstream...

******************************
07. COMPANY ERRORS
Segway Inc. should focus on development and focus on HOW TO MAKE SEGWAY for a larger user base. Never mind the competition - you should outcompete competition by strong R&D and product development. Look at Apple - did it help to sue Samsung? No, it didn't. Do they still dominate and lead the smartphone segment? Yes. In fact, the competition has helped Apple because users need choices.I was unaware that Apple leads the smartphone segment. As a matter of fact, while Apple surely has its fans, I believe it has a smaller share of the smart phone market than Samsung. I am not sure of the numbers, however, so will happily accept a corroborated correction.

The Segway is still a bit Nerdy-looking. That is a big problem. I would love to hear your suggestions to make this not so.
The Segway's lack of new features makes it dying. I am unaware of their yearly sales. Are they dying?
The direction to go on E-bicycles is a MISTAKE. The competition is utterly FIERCE and there is no exciting to do except to deliver an expensive machine with stunning design. Are they doing it - no.Like me, you do not run the Segway company. Here I agree with you to a point, as I do not know the ebike market, but wonder if they will be successful at this.
Segway should focus on developing the Segway to make a feature-rich, open source, cool-looking device, with zero-emission goals (solar panel charging, easy to maintain battery tech so forth.
I like this last vision, I just do not know how to make it so, and have not heard ideas that are going to make this so. Many of your suggestions have already been tried and did not work.
****************************

THE GOOD!
The build is insanely high. Quality wise this thing will last forever. Kudos! I agree. Very high quality on the Segway, maybe not as much on the battery and battery technology, but still very good.

******************************
MY CONTRIBUTION

- I'm developing a LED-kit and I'm gonna make a video so anyone can do it cheap
- I'm going to test a new battery maintenance design (because I also have a low voltage battery)
- I'm also investing in a new small portable solar power plant to see what it's like to charge the Segway entirely off the grid.
- Involving more in this community which I think is great BTW!

Please comment with your thoughts about my ideas and feedback on how to grow Segway into the next decennium!

happy gliding and see you around,

Marcus

Marcus, I like many of your ideas, but there is more to it than you seem to be aware of, and over the years, I too have been frustrated with the slow movement from Segway. I believe too slow. But it is not my company to move...

Good luck with your efforts. I believe that is some of them come to fruition, they will improve the product...

[JohnG]

To be fair, I'm not sure the P133 was ever given much of a fighting chance.

I think there's something to be said with putting all the technology into a smaller, nimbler machine like a new P133 (with lithium ions) that is like half the price of the current Segway and meant primarily for indoor and street use. I loved the P133 because it's the closest to feeling like the machine is barely there...

But again, the upfront costs of an entirely new model like this are significant. The company would have to have a solid forecast or new infusion of investments in order to make good on such a hypothetical model.

John

[dale@thecoys.net]

Originally Posted by mryang

So, what's wrong then? What kind of problems hinders its growth?

Marcus

I'm curious. What do you intend to do with this information?