Developing the Segway into the next decennium

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by Civicsman

Facts are facts.

This is not one:

I am not aware of any road or public way in the United States where it is legal to drive a corvette or anything else at 300kph. I thought this must be done on a closed environment, like a track. (Last time I was in Germany, there were areas of the autobahn that have no speed limits)

If I am wrong, please enlighten me. Please educate me and tell me where a person can drive that car at that speed that is a public way.

[mryang]

I'm completely uninterested to show off some pedigree of excellence. I respect anyone with a human spirit. Only our common forces can help us. If it fails it was my fault. You can petty fight each other knowing it will add / contribute zero to this discussion. How many qualified hours or km I have amassed on the vehicle, my girth circumference or my logical iq is totally irrelevant. Please refrain from this.

With that said:

1. OEM integration will in most cases b superior any aftermarket addition because of hardware and software reasons such as programming power priority to lights, GPS and such, design "smoothness" etc. Also paint a device twice is not just waste of time it also makes it more difficult.

2. About speed: The risk of danger increases with speed - yes and agreed. But this goes for any moving unit and doesn't really answer the question wether the Segway should be speed limited to 20kph specifically or if still possible certain skilled drivers could handle say 30kph.

Is speed determined by physical / engineering limits or for the safety of the driver because Segway riders don't know how to control thenselves while Corvette drivers clearly can?

[KSagal]

Originally Posted by mryang

KSagal: If we put aside numbers;

1. Would you want your Segway to go faster?
2. do u agree that speed "should" be the choice of the driver (still following the law) rather than a restriction on the machine? So if I cruise on the street around my block and not on the sidewalk I just have to follow the speed limit for bicycles?

If yes, we are agreed. The technical issues we can investigate later.

1. Yes, I do like more speed, and mine goes faster than the 12.5 mph that the factory set it at. I modified it myself. I have no desire to go 25mph, as I know how much danger that would put me in. I do set my own speed, based on my perception of the conditions I am in, up to my personal maximum speed. (and if the factory set the segway maximum speed higher, I would take advantage of it.)

2. Yes, I do believe the responsibility of the driver is paramount, and they should be held accountable for speed and other actions, both responsible or irresponsible.

I do and can go much faster on my bicycle than on my segway, and know it is safer to go 25 mph on my bicycle than on my segway, because of the design of each device.

[[email protected]]

A couple of comments relating to desires previously expressed:

1. Increasing the speed capability would have the following disadvantages in the US market (and perhaps elsewhere):

a. In most states/cities, it would no longer be allowed to be used as an EPAMD

b. In most states (I believe all of them), it would be classified as a motorcycle (or motorized bicycle). This would require the operator to have a motorcycle endorsement (having passed a test) on his/her license. And the device would have to pass the motorcycle inspection.

2. "Higher-capacity batteries" and "accompany passenger in airplane" are, with today's practical technologies, incompatible requirements. Pick one. And, by the way, making the batteries easily removable causes the "passenger aircraft transport" situation to be worse.

[SegwayDan]

Sorry, but I basically disagree with your entire proposition. I think the improvements seen in the recent i2 SE model are the kinds of incremental improvements which should be made—not the major ones you propose.

I've been an almost daily glider for over a decade, and I can honestly say that I dearly love my decade-old i2 with all of its strengths and weaknesses.

I'm glad the machines are as expensive as they are. It keeps a lot of irresponsible, inconsiderate, and stupid riff raff off of them, thereby not giving the Segway PT a bad reputation.

They shouldn't be allowed to go any faster, as they'd become unwelcome on sidewalks and paths where they rightly belong. They'd also be quite a bit more dangerous which might very well precipitate various regulations and restrictions.

The machine's operation should not be able to be tinkered with, as I believe too many potential tinkerers would not understand and/or appreciate the many technical factors involved in making the machine run safely and reliably.

The Segway is serious transportation. It's not some jack around big boy's toy. If used with reasonable care, it can pay for itself in the long term as it did for us. We got rid of our second car back when we got the PTs. I'm sure we would have spent far more than the $15K the two machines cost us on that car as well as its replacements over these ten-plus years.

I think the PT has found its admittedly tiny niche market and I believe it's doing at least adequately well. So I'm of the firm opinion that that relative success should NOT be tampered with.

[mryang]

Originally Posted by SegwayDan

Sorry, but I basically disagree with your entire proposition. I think the improvements seen in the recent i2 SE model are the kinds of incremental improvements which should be made—not the major ones you propose.

I've been an almost daily glider for over a decade, and I can honestly say that I dearly love my decade-old i2 with all of its strengths and weaknesses.

I'm glad the machines are as expensive as they are. It keeps a lot of irresponsible, inconsiderate, and stupid riff raff off of them, thereby not giving the Segway PT a bad reputation.

They shouldn't be allowed to go any faster, as they'd become unwelcome on sidewalks and paths where they rightly belong. They'd also be quite a bit more dangerous which might very well precipitate various regulations and restrictions.

The machine's operation should not be able to be tinkered with, as I believe too many potential tinkerers would not understand and/or appreciate the many technical factors involved in making the machine run safely and reliably.

The Segway is serious transportation. It's not some jack around big boy's toy. If used with reasonable care, it can pay for itself in the long term as it did for us. We got rid of our second car back when we got the PTs. I'm sure we would have spent far more than the $15K the two machines cost us on that car as well as its replacements over these ten-plus years.

I think the PT has found its admittedly tiny niche market and I believe it's doing at least adequately well. So I'm of the firm opinion that that relative success should NOT be tampered with.

Do u ever drive ur Segway when it's dark out? If yes - how have you solved the light / visibility issue?

Do you own a smartphone? If yes, have u ever installed an app to extend it's original features?

And - if I understand you correctly - you don't want a world where most people ride Segways instead of cars and scooters because they would give Segways a bad reputation?

[Civicsman]

There is no place in the United States other than on a closed track that anyone can drive a corvette or anything else at 300kph

There are risks when one makes a sweeping statement. Even "road or public way" is not correct.

There are large areas of salt flats in Utah that are owned by the federal government, and which are legally accessed by the public from I-80, west of Salt Lake City. The place is not the slightest bit "closed", except for a couple of weeks per year where it is booked, and the winter when it is less like a salt flat and more like a salt lake. When it's not underwater, there are no requirements whatsoever. Drive on, put your foot down, and see what you can do.

My personal "record" is about 105 MPH in a rental Chevy Traverse. It would have gone faster, but the surface was wet. Take drinking water.

[Civicsman]

Mr Yang,

I believe you don't have a good understanding of the requirements of the market in the USA, and you certainly don't have much experience with Segway, Inc.

As stated by [email protected], the HT/PT enjoys a unique legal definition in many states within the United States. If it went faster, it would not be legal to define it as a EPAMD (Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device), and it would not be legal on either streets or sidewalks. To be legal on public streets, it would have to meet many requirements of lighting and braking, which it currently does not.

Sure, it's possible to change the laws, but who's going to pay for that? It's pretty clear to me that Segway doesn't have the money to make anything other than cosmetic changes to the product.

[mryang]

Originally Posted by Civicsman

Mr Yang,

I believe you don't have a good understanding of the requirements of the market in the USA, and you certainly don't have much experience with Segway, Inc.

As stated by [email protected], the HT/PT enjoys a unique legal definition in many states within the United States. If it went faster, it would not be legal to define it as a EPAMD (Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device), and it would not be legal on either streets or sidewalks. To be legal on public streets, it would have to meet many requirements of lighting and braking, which it currently does not.

Sure, it's possible to change the laws, but who's going to pay for that? It's pretty clear to me that Segway doesn't have the money to make anything other than cosmetic changes to the product.

Is the x2 EPAMD certified as well?
From my understanding the x2 is only allowed off road - yet, has the same restrictions as the i2 - if your argument is valid - how do they connect?

I have zero experience of the actual company so happy to learn as much as possible about their R&D strategies.

[SegwayDan]

Originally Posted by mryang

Do u ever drive ur Segway when it's dark out? If yes - how have you solved the light / visibility issue?

I use an LED bike light.

Originally Posted by mryang

Do you own a smartphone? If yes, have u ever installed an app to extend it's original features?

The Segway PT and smartphones are vastly different devices and therefore, logically not comparable. The PT is not designed to allow apps to be installed.

Originally Posted by mryang

And - if I understand you correctly - you don't want a world where most people ride Segways instead of cars and scooters because they would give Segways a bad reputation?

You do NOT understand me correctly. Re-read my post, and stop trying to twist my words.