Overload motor and consequence?

[Don Sparlin]

I weigh 240 lbs. Have the golf version of x2. Dumped twice in my lumpy yard by trying to go slow over clumps. Small bare spot followed by clump of grass and spin out and flop. I see that static climbing over even 1" obstacles is verboten! My golf course is best described as a refined cow pasture. It is really bumpy even in the golf cart. Looks like I also have to move up to a better golf course.

Hills: First ride down to bottom of my hill and back up, no problem. A few days later, down the hill and a one mile glide on a paved nature trail. No problem: Fun. Now back up the hill, with all bars showing but apparently a warn battery? Slow, slower, then "soft" leanstear, stop and spin an down on the asphalt with an excellent service by the helmet on the back of my head. Is there no warning that the motor is over torqued? I found a You Tube guy trying to go up a steep incline with the same result.

Unit is on standbye going for full discharge and recharge. Taking a long time, indicating that the batteriesk are possibly in good shape.

Any help out there other than ride on flat smooth surfaces?

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by Don Sparlin

I weigh 240 lbs. Have the golf version of x2. Dumped twice in my lumpy yard by trying to go slow over clumps. Small bare spot followed by clump of grass and spin out and flop. I see that static climbing over even 1" obstacles is verboten! My golf course is best described as a refined cow pasture. It is really bumpy even in the golf cart. Looks like I also have to move up to a better golf course.

Hills: First ride down to bottom of my hill and back up, no problem. A few days later, down the hill and a one mile glide on a paved nature trail. No problem: Fun. Now back up the hill, with all bars showing but apparently a warn battery? Slow, slower, then "soft" leanstear, stop and spin an down on the asphalt with an excellent service by the helmet on the back of my head. Is there no warning that the motor is over torqued? I found a You Tube guy trying to go up a steep incline with the same result.

Unit is on standbye going for full discharge and recharge. Taking a long time, indicating that the batteriesk are possibly in good shape.

Any help out there other than ride on flat smooth surfaces?

Did you get a stick-shake warning when trying to go over the clumps? That's your over-torque warning.

If you do, don't ignore it. You can go over 1" bumps OK, but brute-forcing past a stick shake isn't how to do it.

If you didn't, then I expect the real problem was not the bump so much as loss of traction. The motors can put out a huge amount of torque, but the tires have to deliver it to solid earth for it to be useful. Grass, loose dirt, gravel, ice or snow, wet leaves -- all are things that limit your ability to be forceful.

Now, to get over life's little bumps in the road, there are a couple of strategies.

First, don't try to climb over bumps at a dead stop. You will do much better with some momentum. You can hit a 1" bump with both tires at full speed and keep on going, but at some bigger size, you're going to wish you weren't going so fast.

Fortunately, it doesn't take all that much momentum, especially for a 1" bump.

Second, if you allow your knees to flex as you go over the bump, it only needs to raise the Segway, not you. This is another reason to have some momentum -- it's easier to just let your knees flex as you hit the bump. For doing it at a standstill, you essentially have to jump a bit. It can be done, but it's harder to time...

Third, take your weight off the tire that's going over the bump, and put it on the other foot.

Finally, if both tires are going over the bump, do so at a slight angle so they're not hitting it at the same time. If you're going slowly enough, you can shift your weight as each wheel goes over; otherwise, just allow your knees to flex.

Switching from the golf version of the tires to the regular x2 tires might help, but of course, they're also harder on the grass.

I can't really judge from your description what may have happened to you on the hill. Warm batteries doesn't seem likely to be the issue. "stop and spin" isn't the low-battery failure mode. Pushing past the stick-shake warning can give you an emergency shutdown, but you'll get beeping warnings before that happens.

Spin and fall is more likely a loss-of-traction event. Was there sand or dust or leaves on the pavement? If you get the "slow, slower, "soft leansteer" behavior, check your info key. But generally, on pavement, you should be able to at least stand still without any issues. In 6000 miles, I have *never* fallen on pavement, no matter how steep. The only steep pavement I've avoided has been on the inside of some curves, or from curb cuts, etc. I just consider those to be glorified curbs, and go around.

One other possibility on the pavement: If the pavement is rough, "cobblestone-like", at certain speeds, the vibration can confuse the Segway, and it will slow down to get its bearings. The solution in that case is to let it bring itself to a stop, and not force it, give it a moment to be certain it knows which direction is up, and then continue, at a different speed. Usually it's better to go slower, but sometimes you'll go over some rough pavement quickly without problem, then try it again at a lower speed, and it gets confused. It's the frequency of the vibrations that are key.

In any event, if the Segway is acting "sluggish" and wants to slow down, let it do so.

[bud01234]

Excellent post Bob.

I remember when I first got my I2, when I tried to carefully go from the street up over a small rounded lip (2" high) to my slightly uphill driveway, it would get almost over the lip and then stop, then I'd have to step off or the segway would try to turn away. I finally realized if I approached the lip and leaned forward to carry momentum, the seg would happily zip right over the lip and right on up the driveway.

Sounds like Don is carefully and very slowly trying to go over bumps and divots and not carrying any momentum. I'm not suggesting zipping along at full speed; just leaning into any 'small' obstruction rather than stopping and easing into it.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Another thought is: what tire pressure is he running? The x2 / turf tires are meant to be relatively low pressure, which accommodate surface irregularities and enhance traction.

[jgbackes]

Originally Posted by PeteInLongBeach

Another thought is: what tire pressure is he running? The x2 / turf tires are meant to be relatively low pressure, which accommodate surface irregularities and enhance traction.

Yep you should only be running 4 PSI in those tires.

[Don Sparlin]

Thanks for the replys. No stick shake. I will try the hill again when my very interesting bruise heals. My golf course charges $5 for nine hole for the cart. Hmmm? Anyway, the technogeek I am means onward and downward. Flat and smooth sounds good. I have ridden successfully on my "good" grass, just not under the trees in the woodland section.

I am unsure how long you can lug the motor before overheating with potential loss of torque. The challenge is fun for this old experimental physicist.

Also glad my posts now appear.

[dale@thecoys.net]

Please don't try playing your trombone while gliding.....

But seriously, I have an X2 and sometimes use it on reasonably bumpy terrain - including vacant lots, parks, etc. And often on rather steep streets, hills, etc. Previously in New Mexico (sand, rocks, etc.) and more recently back in Missouri. [I can imagine gliding around the house we rented in the 70s, on Vienna Road in Rolla]

[I have also been tossed off my X2 when the dynamics of riding on a "washboard road" didn't match the combined control algorithms of the Segway and myself]

It is difficult to control any Segway when the applied load (average) varies quickly. That is particularly evident with the X2 because we tend to get into rough terrain. The real answer is confidence, built over time with experience (and yes a few hard knocks). "Never" try to start moving "uphill" - particularly if that's in dirt or turf.

If you get stopped in a hole, find some way to not immediately start uphill: back up a bit, turn around, etc. But it's best to not get totally stopped.

A certain amount of momentum (confidence) is your friend. Of course, I don't mean reckless abandon.

I have a rather steep concrete driveway. With lots of X2 experience, I know I can stop in the middle and then control a direct uphill start (because it's a smooth surface). But I don't like doing that - so I reduce the angle by going in a diagonal direction.

Oh, we have 2 X2s and 2 XTs, and my 3 grandsons enjoy gliding everywhere, including vacant lots, etc. And have done so since age 6 or so.

I'm guessing that in relatively rough territory (vacant lot, cow pasture, etc.) I (and my grandkids) try to maintain a speed similar to a brisk walking pace.

[Footnote: MSCS UMR 1972, and now age 75]

[Don Sparlin]

Having been tossed several times, I am now somewhat skittish about approaching bumps. When the bruise is less tender, I will try again. Oh, to be twenty years younger for quicker bruise healing!

[Amimoto]

Originally Posted by Don Sparlin

I am unsure how long you can lug the motor before overheating with potential loss of torque. The challenge is fun for this old experimental physicist.

From the recent testing of our new battery on i2, the motor will not overheat, I've test 2 sets of high capacity batteries (6.6AH), nonstop running full speed on flat surface, first set went for 46KM, changed another rider and another set of battery, went for another 51KM (Second rider is lighter), that is total of 97KM nonstop riding on full speed.
After 2 sets of battery, segway platform is only warm as chassis and gear box provide plenty of heat dispansing area for the motor.

[dale@thecoys.net]

Originally Posted by Don Sparlin

Having been tossed several times, I am now somewhat skittish about approaching bumps. When the bruise is less tender, I will try again. Oh, to be twenty years younger for quicker bruise healing!

Well, yes. But I'm 75. If I can do it, and my grandkids can do it......

Yes, I know that isn't helpful.

Don, if you would like to arrange a short "road trip" (bringing your X2 of course) to Lee's Summit, Missouri, in a few weeks, I would be happy to personally help you.

Yes, I realize it's a bit over 200 miles. Just send a PM.