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Old 04-15-2014, 02:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Sparlin View Post
... The InfoKey showed full charge, but the loss of stabilization says weak battery.
The stabilization system is entirely redundant, and with a warning system (stick shake) before shutdown. That's unlikely to be the issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Sparlin View Post
Riding in my cow pasture yard with lots of clumps and divots, I went slowly due to the roughness, then got one wheel stuck in a depression, big spin and down again.
Understandable if one wheel has far more "rolling resistance" than the other.

Don, if you would like to arrange a short "road trip" to Lee's Summit, Missouri, in a couple of weeks, I would be happy to personally help you diagnose the X2 (swap batteries, you ride one of mine, etc. etc.). Just send a PM.
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Old 04-15-2014, 04:02 PM   #12
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Hello (I am from Austria)

Would like to imagine also like my software

It consists of a special charger and a current sink.
All data is evaluated with the PC.
http://www.pukshofer.com/Firma/downl...Erklaerung.pdf

Unfortunately I am too far away... but you can see a small part of what I do...

excuse my bad English :-(

best regards Roberto

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Old 04-15-2014, 07:43 PM   #13
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^ +1

Very nice. There is a member here "Dr. Marty" I have not heard from in years that had equipment much like you have there. I sure wish you lived next door

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Old 04-15-2014, 07:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amimoto View Post
We have the tool and software to test battery under load or re-genitive recharge - simulating climb or going down hill (MTO will have the same system) unfortunately we are too far away.





Does this work thought the stock Segway BMS?

I sure wish someone that likes working on this stuff would move to Silicon Valley!!! Hint Hint!!!

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Old 04-15-2014, 09:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale@thecoys.net View Post
It's a rather simple Physics problem. However, internal resistance is usually rather constant throughout almost all of battery lifetime, and often has little relationship to battery capacity.

See for instance:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...nal_resistance

http://lygte-info.dk/info/Internal%2...ance%20UK.html

But please be very careful if you actually try to do this with a Segway battery.
Yes, high internal resistance is a failure mode, not a capacity issue. But things get more complicated at high loads, when chemistry starts to play more of a role and batteries start to diverge from the simplified electrical model.

The best way to think of resistance in this context is dE/dI (E = voltage, I = current, for those unfamiliar with the notation. That is, how much voltage changes with a change in current). This is not a constant value.

The bottom line is that the current a battery can output is limited by the rate of the chemical reaction, which generally involves diffusion processes of some sort. At low load, they act more like a voltage source; at high load, more like a current source.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone here; just trying to relate the various views of the situation.

It's also important to remember the electrical behavior of motors: the voltage across an ideal motor will be proportional to the speed, while the current will be proportional to the torque.

You can easily derive this from the basic observations that power in = power out (conservation of energy), and that the torque of a motor is produced by magnetic fields, which are proportional to current. (The latter eliminates the possibility that it's the other way around).

It's tax day, so I'll leave the derivation as an exercise to the reader...

Real motors introduce more complexities, of course, but at a high level, this has to be true of all types of motors.

So the current limitations of a battery limit the torque available, while the voltage drop limits how many RPMs you can get at that torque.
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Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgbackes View Post
Does this work thought the stock Segway BMS?
Yes it does work with all versions of stock Segway Valence BMS (AC-AH),
the example picture provided is version AF.

Also a male to female extention connector with data and power output bypass to plug into our off board fast charger so we can monitor the individual cell performance during fast charging cycle.

Thank you Bob for a simple battery and motor physics overview, you have explain it so beautifully and absolutely correct in a very easy to understand fashion.




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Old 04-17-2014, 06:13 PM   #17
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I love your 'T' connector.

I have often thought of a connector of that sort to allow two batteries (actually 4) to be in parallel, and therefore doubling the range of the segway...

I first thought of this long ago with NiMH batteries, but the concept remains valid, in that you glide with one set in the normal place, and the partner set in a bag on the segway.

I believe the extra range will more than compensate for the extra weight.

I thought that since the management of the battery itself is internal, then segway might not need much if any modifications...

Maybe even this setup could be made to work with 4 NiMH batteries instead of two LiIons, allowing for a greater range, or even an alternative to LiIons on 2nd gen machines...
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:08 AM   #18
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Default Problem battery

I have an error code C108 with a red battery light.

After switching position of the battery (front to back,back to front) error code is C100.

The voltage of the two batteries is 70v
How I can repair it.

Thank you for your help
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:26 AM   #19
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When you plug your Segway to recharge, the rear battery's (you swap battery already) charging indicator LED shows red? If so, you need to contact MTO to revive the battery ASAP.

You state that the both voltage is 70v but your error code indicates C108 - CUB detect front battery empty and after battery swap C100 - CUA detect rear battery empty, it looks like one of your battery is malfunction and the problem battery shouldn't show 70v, if so, the battery's BMS is sending out wrong signal, as the code is already stated above.


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Old 05-02-2014, 01:33 AM   #20
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BTW, It's MTO battery, not Ministry of Transportation,
google them and Jason will help you to revive the battery, revival will work if the process is actioned in time and damages to the cells are not yet permanent. Otherwise rebuild of new cells are recommended.


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