SegwayChat
Home . Old Gallery

Go Back   SegwayChat > Segway Forums > Segway General Discussion

Notices

Segway General Discussion General discussion related to any model of Segways, miniPROs, or Ninebots. Please do not post non-Segway technology posts here; use the technology forum instead.

Old 03-09-2013, 04:25 PM   #21
Civicsman
Senior Member
Civicsman is a glorious beacon of lightCivicsman is a glorious beacon of lightCivicsman is a glorious beacon of lightCivicsman is a glorious beacon of lightCivicsman is a glorious beacon of lightCivicsman is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Freedonia!
Posts: 1,703
5 yr Member
Default

I find that far too often, people who don't really know anything about a topic still hold strong opinions. Personally, I think it is wise to leave engineering to engineers. They can be pretty knowledgeably about things like three-point vs two-point stability, and understand why a Bombardier Can-Am is as stable as it is.

I also wonder about those folks who have repeatedly written on SC that self-balancing two-wheelers are the wave of the future, that the existing I2 / X2 is pretty much perfect, and who reacted negatively when others started conjecturing (in the past) about possible features for an I3. How does one improve on perfection? Will Dean Kamen purists react negatively if the new Seg is a variation on a T3?

Important Questions: Does Segway now have a marketing department? Did they do the appropriate market research? Are they now the force in the company that is driving the development of this product? What market is the new Seg intended to serve. What is the size of that market, and how does the new product compare to the competition in that market?

I am really hoping that three-wheeled thingie is part of a range of new products, which would include a smaller, lighter, lower-cost two-wheeled I3 with NiMH batteries.
Civicsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 05:35 PM   #22
KSagal
Glides a lot, talks more...
KSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud of
 
KSagal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

interesting video Bob. I did not understand what he was saying, however.

I did not see it move much. I did see a small wheel under the foot bar, making 3 that I noticed. I wonder about it's drive/stop characteristics.

I also noticed a track driven snow board (I am guessing it was a snow board or snow shoe of some sort.) I would have enjoyed it more if I understood his comments. Did anyone else have this problem?

Kind of reminds me of that orange motorcycle that looked to have one wheel, but actually had two right next to each other in the center. Lots of video, lots of speculation, very little video of it actually working. Looked cool however.
__________________
Karl Ian Sagal

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin)
Bene factum melior bene dictum

Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.
KSagal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 08:30 PM   #23
bob yarbrough
Member
bob yarbrough has a little shameless behaviour in the past
 
bob yarbrough's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: mechanicsville, va
Posts: 166
5 yr Member
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSagal View Post
interesting video Bob. I did not understand what he was saying, however.

I did not see it move much. I did see a small wheel under the foot bar, making 3 that I noticed. I wonder about it's drive/stop characteristics.

I also noticed a track driven snow board (I am guessing it was a snow board or snow shoe of some sort.) I would have enjoyed it more if I understood his comments. Did anyone else have this problem?

Kind of reminds me of that orange motorcycle that looked to have one wheel, but actually had two right next to each other in the center. Lots of video, lots of speculation, very little video of it actually working. Looked cool however.




yeah..I know. By the end of the video I was disappointed enough from their lack of action of leaning. Maybe they only know how to sit on a Segway wnnabe but have not learned how to glide yet, <grin>. I did find the addition of the caster type
wheels and design interesting enough to post.

be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
the PONY SEAT
bob yarbrough is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 11:28 PM   #24
SegwayDan
Advanced Member
SegwayDan has a spectacular aura aboutSegwayDan has a spectacular aura about
 
SegwayDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Clearwater, FL, USA.
Posts: 2,666
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob yarbrough View Post
yeah..I know. By the end of the video I was disappointed enough from their lack of action of leaning. Maybe they only know how to sit on a Segway wnnabe but have not learned how to glide yet, <grin>. I did find the addition of the caster type
wheels and design interesting enough to post.

be safe
enjoy your glide...

Bob Yarbrough
the PONY SEAT guy
Thanks, Bob. That is sort of what I've been talking about with a third wheel being a caster or outrigger.

It's SE Asia, most likely Thailand. Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia languages sound much more "sing-song". I think I've seen the script before as Thai, too.
__________________
"Never stop looking for what isn't there." --Monty Wildhorn

Dan Swanson

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

727-403-2628
SegwayDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 12:54 AM   #25
Bob.Kerns
Advanced Member
Bob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of lightBob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of lightBob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of lightBob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of lightBob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of lightBob.Kerns is a glorious beacon of light
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Marin County, CA
Posts: 3,783
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SegwayDan View Post
I have to disagree with you on these last points of yours.

Three points of support for a *static* system is obviously the most stable. But in the case of the *dynamic* system of a three-wheeled transporter, there will be many lateral forces pushing the device over onto only two of the three wheels. If the rear wheel is used for steering, what happens to control when it gets pushed up into the air? Or what happens to steering control if one of the other wheels gets pushed up?

No, I'd say Segway wouldn't want to throw out the baby with the bath water and all of a sudden not incorporate its magical dynamic balancing system with at 3-wheeled transporter--in a similar way to the way it was kept with the Centaur. That's why I'm guessing that a third wheel would answer the need for greater stability for when the machine was traveling very slowly or stopped, in which case, it should "caster" and follow along with its two big brothers which have been doing all the Segway-style heavy lifting of propulsion and steering.
You misunderstand. I didn't say the third wheel would be used for steering. I said it would be actively steered, so it is pointing the correct way, consistent with the differential drive of the drive wheels. Thus it would reinforce, not subtract from, the steering. So, for example, if one of the drive wheels loses traction, the third wheel would contribute steering force, not provide force in whatever direction it was castored at the moment, which might have been due to a bump or something.

Perhaps the way to think of it is active castoring, rather than relying on drag from an offset pivot.
__________________
Bob Kerns:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Obviously, we can't have infinite voltage, or the universe would tear itself to shreds, and we wouldn't be discussing Segways.
Bob.Kerns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 02:45 AM   #26
Gihgehls
Senior Member
Gihgehls is just really niceGihgehls is just really niceGihgehls is just really niceGihgehls is just really niceGihgehls is just really nice
 
Gihgehls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 2,086
5 yr Member
Default

Or like coordinating the tail of an aircraft during a turn.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"...if you insist on being imprecise in use and unique in definition, you should hardly be surprised that your attempts at communication are poorly understood." -a wise man
Gihgehls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:13 AM   #27
GadgetmanKen
Member
GadgetmanKen will become famous soon enough
 
GadgetmanKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,149
5 yr Member SegwayFest Attendee
Default

How would having a third wheel help in stability in faster speed if you lean forward to go faster, which would lift up the rear wheel off the ground. Then it would serve no purpose. The HT, I2, X2 has great stability in slow speeds. Therefore the third wheel would have to be used in front for stability in faster speeds. If they are wanting to go after T3's share of the Police or Security market they would need the Segway to go faster than it does. So thats why I'm thinking it has to be a drop down wheel in the front, perhaps gravity feed, pendilum style. It would also have to be a castor type wheel that turns beacaus the turning as it is is controlled by increasing or decreasing the speed of one wheel. It will most likely fall forward at a certain rate of speed with a horizontal stabilizer that would lock in down. Probably with a curvature in it. Thats my thinking on it. I also think it will be called an I3.
__________________
"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"
GadgetmanKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:18 AM   #28
GadgetmanKen
Member
GadgetmanKen will become famous soon enough
 
GadgetmanKen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,149
5 yr Member SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Oh, it may be quite possible the base will slide in a forward curve upward so that when it speeds up your center of gravity will slide forward on the base as the Segway's base tilts forward. Just a guess.
__________________
"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"
GadgetmanKen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 12:27 PM   #29
rickb
Member
rickb is an unknown quantity at this point
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 327
5 yr Member
Default

Stability in my opinion relates to the Seg in shut down mode or stopped position allowing for solid 3 point parking, safety in an emergency shutdown mode, and a stabile machine when mounting or dismounting. Ideal for equipment laden patrol officers and wannabe Segway owners with balance issues.
rickb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 04:33 PM   #30
KSagal
Glides a lot, talks more...
KSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud ofKSagal has much to be proud of
 
KSagal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pelham, NH, USA.
Posts: 10,356
5 yr Member HT/PT Owner SegwayFest Attendee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gihgehls View Post
Or like coordinating the tail of an aircraft during a turn.
I believe this would work in a plane or a boat, but not so much in a device that has hard contact with the ground.

With a boat or plane, you can 'skid' at an angle, or fly (or drive) with the nose pointing one way, and the vehicle going a slightly different way.

It is easy to illustrate this, but hard to describe it. If you are in a plane, and you are facing north, and want to fly north, but there is a strong wind from the west, you will not actually go north, but north and east. If you point the nose of the plane a bit to the west, so you are pointing pretty much north west, you will then travel north, if seen from the ground.

This is one of the reasons you can steer a plane both with the rudder on the tail, and by tilting the plane a bit, (wing over wing) and other things. It is because you are not in hard contact.

When a plane lands, and transitions from being in the air to being on the wheels, there is a distinct difference in how the machine moves in a cross wind.

The easiest way to illustrate this with words that I can think of for a wheeled vehicle would be to have people think of a car that is drifting around a corner. In that circumstance, the car may be pointing one direction, and moving another direction, and still under relative control. (Unlike a skid on ice, where the same may be happening, but not under nearly as much control) If there is some sort of steering assistance from a 3rd wheel either fore or aft, or active steering coordination, you would also have to have some sort of differential on all the wheels, in the way that all wheel drive vehicles have a differential for each wheel. Can a segway still function as we know it does with a differential on the drive wheels?

If you incorporate 3 wheels into the segway situation, then you need to consider what happens when one or more wheels looses traction, or starts to 'drift'. Currently, as segway cannot drift with perhaps one notable Italian exception. And even then, only under very particular situations, not under normal driving situations.

We all know what happens now, when one wheel looses traction. It is not particularly pretty.
__________________
Karl Ian Sagal

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Well done is better than well said." (Ben Franklin)
Bene factum melior bene dictum

Proud past President of SEG America and member of the First Premier Segway Enthusiasts Group and subsequent ones as well.

Last edited by KSagal; 03-11-2013 at 04:47 PM..
KSagal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 AM.
Copyright © 2002-2023 SegwayChat.org.
All rights reserved. Not affiliated with Segway Inc.

FreshBlue vBulletin skin by
VayaDesign
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SegwayChat Archive