URGENT-Disney Proposed Settlement

[KSagal]

Bob,

It is a simple matter of a double standard... JohnM has been consistent in his presumption that Disney has the upper hand here, and has often stated that they have safety data to support their position, or here that they have the resources to develope a safer segway for their venue, but has offered no proof at all.

The double standard is that when anyone says anything pro segway, he says it is wild speculation.

When I call him on his unsupported speculations, he tells us all that I don't get it.

Well, I don't. Why the double standard? Why is it that when others offer speculation without supporting evidence it is dismissible, but when JohnM offers his speculation without supporting evidence, it is supposed to be taken as a prophecy from above?

I said a long time ago, it was about an inappropriate abridgement of the rights of people, as guarenteed by the ADA. At the time, JohnM speculated that they must have some safety data in their back pocket to refute me. I asked for proof, and that argument went away...

I am under the impression that lots and lots of millions of dollars went into the development and manufacturing of the segway. Hundreds of millions possibly. How is it that JohnM feels that Disney has this kind of resources at their disposal? By speculating, of course...

[Gihgehls]

I speculate that Disney has no idea what they are doing, are dirt-poor and haven't the resources needed to develop a standing ECV, and have no safety data at all. I speculate they don't even record when an employee hurts themselves on their company ride. Unfortunately I don't have any evidence, so you can safely assume the opposite of what I've said is true.

[Tarkus]

OK, Time is running short. If you have yet to fill out your objection to the Disney Class Action please do so now. We need all of you to make our case.

http://208.112.97.123/DisneyClassAct...0/Default.aspx

We have received good response, just don't want anyone to slip between the cracks.

Be Big,
AMAC

[KSagal]

TO THE spineless worm who left me a negative rep worth 5 points (meaning a large number of posts) and said "Isn't a monorail a transportation device?", that is the act of a worthless coward.

The discussion was that JohnM said that Disney would design and build a stand up mobility device that was safer in their venue than a segway...

To the best of my knowledge, a monorail is not a standup mobility aide that in any way resembles a segway...

Originally Posted by JohnM

Bob,
You seem to have some inside information on the performance characteristics of the Disney standing vehicle. Care to share?

... Till Disney unvails their standing vehicle. its all wild speculation.
...

Originally Posted by KSagal

What evidence do you have that Disney has any resources or skills at designing a device of this sort? ...

Originally Posted by JohnM

Ever been to a Disney park Karl? They have these things called 'rides'........Oh never mind.

All the sudden, someone has seemed to have forgotten he was talking about a standing mobility aide that rivals a segway, but is safer in their venue.

Originally Posted by KSagal

JohnM,

You are being silly. The Monorail you pictured has nothing to do with their ability to design a device as a mobility aide that is safer than a segway, as you claimed...

Now, I know you have stated many times that you don't ride segways, but in case you were not aware, they are not like elevated trains. They are somewhat different...

Originally Posted by JohnM

...probably has the resources, i.e. $$$$, to develop a safe stand-up scooter.
...

Originally Posted by KSagal

Bob,

It is a simple matter of a double standard... JohnM has been consistent in his presumption that Disney has the upper hand here, and has often stated that they have safety data to support their position, or here that they have the resources to develop a safer segway for their venue, but has offered no proof at all.
...

I am under the impression that lots and lots of millions of dollars went into the development and manufacturing of the segway. Hundreds of millions possibly. How is it that JohnM feels that Disney has this kind of resources at their disposal? By speculating, of course...

Originally Posted by Gihgehls

I speculate that Disney has no idea what they are doing, are dirt-poor and haven't the resources needed to develop a standing ECV, and have no safety data at all. I speculate they don't even record when an employee hurts themselves on their company ride. Unfortunately I don't have any evidence, so you can safely assume the opposite of what I've said is true.

I do not think that Disney cannot do this thing, in that they can develop (or have developed for them) a stand up mobility device, but it was stated as fact, and it was not supported... Their ability to buy a train, or to design a train or other rides does not mean they can design and build a mobility device that is safer than a segway... Maybe they can, and maybe they will, but I have not seen any reason to believe it is fact, and none has been offered up thus far...

Everyone is speculating here. Many people, including me, several pages and months ago, said the real issue here is not the device, but the illegality of denying access to the park for certain citizens...

And to clarify beyond any doubt, I do not think that a picture of a monorail at an amusement park is proof that they can develop and produce a stand up mobility device that is safer than a segway, in their venue. They may be able to do it, but evidence has not yet been offered here...

I will not say more on this particular sub-topic, as I do not want to further derail this very important thread, which is about having people voice their opposition of an unfair class action lawsuit...

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by Gihgehls

I speculate that Disney has no idea what they are doing, are dirt-poor and haven't the resources needed to develop a standing ECV, and have no safety data at all. I speculate they don't even record when an employee hurts themselves on their company ride. Unfortunately I don't have any evidence, so you can safely assume the opposite of what I've said is true.

I don't like your attitude.

[Bob.Kerns]

Originally Posted by JohnM

I don't like your attitude.

I don't think people will get that in the way you intended.

[JohnM]

Originally Posted by Bob.Kerns

I don't think people will get that in the way you intended.

And some people don't intend to think to get their way.

[jryan]

I am lost in why DIsney would want to go through this whole ordeal. They have some hidden motivation or perhaps they are just on a power trip. It costs them not a penny more than what they have already paid (meaning their lawyers) to just say "We were not wrong but because we value our mobility impaired guests we will welcome them and their Segways with open arms". We would all know this is complete bs but they could walk away valiantly.

Dragging this on, as well as paying R&D (either at the company or at another company) to develop such a thing would cost a lot more money (which I must agree they have). I do not see how they could ever make enough money off of ECV rentals to make up for that. By the way, isn't it illegal to charge for the use of an ECV? I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I think it is!

I am just curious as to what their motivation is because it is clearly not financial and not safety either. They can say it's safety but that doesn't make it so. We need everyone on board that qualifies. EVERYONE!! We do, by all means have the law on our side (by we and our I mean disabled gliders). This is plain and simple. But Disney no doubt has money on their side. I would like to think they would play a fair game, but I doubt it. They can buy evidence and they may even be able to buy the judge (something that would have very little chance of being proven if so).

We need numbers and lots of them. The fact that we are not, as far as I know, demanding money (outside of the standard lawyer fees on our side I assume), that will help the case. The fact is we need to assume that they will play dirty. After all they still deny that they are breaking any laws by denying access. Would I like to think that they will play fair and legally, of course I would, but we cannot expect that. We need numbers!! We also need publicity, we need every one of us to call all of the major news stations and let them know what's happening. They may not bite, but if they do, that will help. The media likes to see companies set straight. So everyone that qualifies, file your papers right now it does not take long, wouldn't you rather take 5 minutes to punch a few keys than the rest of your life wishing you did. Thanks!

Jeremy Ryan

[emrnyc]

Originally Posted by jryan

I am lost in why DIsney would want to go through this whole ordeal. They have some hidden motivation or perhaps they are just on a power trip. It costs them not a penny more than what they have already paid (meaning their lawyers) to just say "We were not wrong but because we value our mobility impaired guests we will welcome them and their Segways with open arms". We would all know this is complete bs but they could walk away valiantly.

Dragging this on, as well as paying R&D (either at the company or at another company) to develop such a thing would cost a lot more money (which I must agree they have). I do not see how they could ever make enough money off of ECV rentals to make up for that. By the way, isn't it illegal to charge for the use of an ECV? I could be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I think it is!

I am just curious as to what their motivation is because it is clearly not financial and not safety either. They can say it's safety but that doesn't make it so. We need everyone on board that qualifies. EVERYONE!! We do, by all means have the law on our side (by we and our I mean disabled gliders). This is plain and simple. But Disney no doubt has money on their side. I would like to think they would play a fair game, but I doubt it. They can buy evidence and they may even be able to buy the judge (something that would have very little chance of being proven if so).

We need numbers and lots of them. The fact that we are not, as far as I know, demanding money (outside of the standard lawyer fees on our side I assume), that will help the case. The fact is we need to assume that they will play dirty. After all they still deny that they are breaking any laws by denying access. Would I like to think that they will play fair and legally, of course I would, but we cannot expect that. We need numbers!! We also need publicity, we need every one of us to call all of the major news stations and let them know what's happening. They may not bite, but if they do, that will help. The media likes to see companies set straight. So everyone that qualifies, file your papers right now it does not take long, wouldn't you rather take 5 minutes to punch a few keys than the rest of your life wishing you did. Thanks!

Jeremy Ryan

Very good points!
Martin

[KSagal]

Those are good points, but I do believe it is financial. It usually always is. The objective of any corporation it to make money. Some do it by providing a product, some by providing a service, some by both, but all must do it at a profit or die. The only exception to this are those which are run or supported by the government.

But, the financial gain that they get is not from scooter rentals...

Disney is a master at herding humans. There is a science to shepherding people from here to there, all the while bleeding their wallets dry... The real masters do this and and the people do not even know they have been fleeced.

Now, there is a reason that each ride is where it is, there is a reason that the benches are where they are, where the restaurants are, where the vendors in carts are, and most everything else in a Disney park...

I am quite sure that when determining all these placements, they already know how often, as a statistic, people get tired, people get hungry, people look for an excuse to not walk further, people look for a toy to buy to quiet the kids...

If you introduce segways, you change many parts of this dynamic. If you have a person in a wheelchair, or on one of those rascal type scooters, you do not engender much jealousy, and people would rather be tired than in a wheel chair, if they have that choice.

In comes the segway. People having fun, and efficiently moving from here to there, using up more services, and wasting less time getting from here to there. They have a smile on their faces, and are not sweating up the hills. They can easily have their water bottles and bypass that 14th soda vendor... They can make it to that last ride, comfortable, and ready to ride a few more across the park, when they would never be willing to walk that far...

Also, what about the scores of observers who are tired and sweating, sitting on that bench, with their grandkids pulling on their arms, trying to get them to hurry to that last ride, or that other attraction? They see a peer buzz by at 5 mph, comfortable and laughing? They are definitely going to say, "I will never walk this again, if I can do it like that!"

I am just speculating, as is EVERYONE else. I suspect that the execs at Disney know that the introduction of segways will really change the herd mentality, not so much for the legitimate disabled who want in, but for the various levels of tired people in the park, whom they have figured so well on separating from their money...

I personally believe that the last thing that Disney wants is a more efficient and fun way for some patrons to use much more of their services than they would otherwise, and buy less refreshments to boot. And the everlasting impact on the rest of the herd will change their per-person spending habbits...