For what component of a Ninebot does "standby" make sense?

Oh, and how would that component "know" to kick in?

I don't know anything about the Ninebot products, and I am not making any claims about whether they have either "redundant" or "standby" systems.

I was commenting about the difference, if any, between the terms "redundant" and "standby". I think it depends entirely on how the terms are defined in the systems engineering documents for the product in question. For example, a standby generator for a building can be considered a redundant source of power. In that case, taking perhaps 30 seconds to get up to speed might be acceptable. Obviously, to keep you upright on a Seg, any "standby" systems/components must get up to speed in milliseconds.

I absolutely agree with that. But redundancy/standby implies that the component is not "functioning" all the time. The simple example would be the Ninebot having two batteries, but one of them is not used unless the other one dies.

For what component of a Ninebot does "redundant" make sense?

Oh, and how would that component "know" to kick in?

Think of this in terms of your car, or your computer, or your cell phone. Not much redundant/standby there. [Perhaps multiple car doors?]

Of course, your house does have redundant/standby components,

I'm not stating that the Ninebot isn't safe. It's just not done through redundancy/standby. The generation 1 and 2 Segways didn't do safety through redundancy/standby.

The issue is even more complex when you consider things like "balance sensors" and "steering input sensors". If you have redundant balance sensors, and they indicate different conditions, which one do you believe? But if you have a standby balance sensor, how do you know that the primary sensor is incorrect, so the standby should take over?

But perhaps the writers of the safety statement quoted earlier (perhaps not native English speakers) thought it would be comforting, even though not exactly technically accurate.

I had the same thing happen!!
 

I had the same thing happen!! Several times in fact - got an early model Elite which I bought directly from the factory. Failed on me with 2 or three bars left a couple times so I sent it to the US service center. After MONTHS there they sent it back say it's fine. So it happened again with my brother two weeks before his wedding. He had to go to the hospital and get several teeth replaced. Sent it back AGAIN. They returned it again saying it's fine but replaced all the bent and scuffed stuff my brother's accident, so it LOOKS like new but I wouldn't ride it but put the charger on it weekly. Tried it last week and get the 3,7 error and it won't operate. Does anyone know if it's a BATTERY problem and if there is any way they'll replace it if I ask the question the right way?

This is a SERIOUSLY dangerous product if it's just a defective first generation battery.

You would think that some smart lawyer would look at the information in this forum and sue Segway.

Also would hope that Segway would see this and FIX their batteries ASAP before the lawyer gets on their case.

Wouldn't some US federal safety agency get involved and force a battery recall?

I heard a few months ago from two different Segway dealers that the (Ninebot) Segway Elite Plus is no longer available the USA because Segway couldn't get UL approval. One dealer said Segway had a warehouse stocked with them in the USA they can't sell now. I have a feeling that this could imply a lack of safety redundancy, but I'm just guessing. That makes me a little nervous about riding mine now. Luckily I also have a Segway i2 SE (slightly nicer than the obsolete i2). I haven't heard any such discussion about the redundancy of the Segway miniPro, or the new Segway miniPro Lite and miniPLUS models. Hopefully the fact that they are legal in the USA implies redundancy.

Too bad about the Elites. UL approval would focus on how the electrical power is distributed safely. Things like size of wire, how the wire is routed, battery management, etc, would be in their realm. I doubt they have anything to do with rider physical safety or redundant "keep upright" systems.

UL approval will make sure you don't get electrocuted by the device or that it doesn't catch fire. Making sure at least as far as following common power design industry standards can make you.

Not falling on your head while riding a self balancing device that puts your feet side by side at 13+mph is the job of DOT or the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission.

Come on. If people can ride skateboards and rollerskates without complaint, MiniPros should be fine. Yes, they don't come equipped with airbags or backup balancing systems but they aren't any more dangerous than Segway i2 SE's. Just ask the Segway owner's next of kin or the honorable President George Bush.

I figure the failure rate for vacuum tubes is why the Segway needed redundant systems :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrijim (Post 242312) I heard a few months ago from two different Segway dealers that the (Ninebot) Segway Elite Plus is no longer available the USA because Segway couldn't get UL approval. One dealer said Segway had a warehouse stocked with them in the USA they can't sell now. I have a feeling that this could imply a lack of safety redundancy, but I'm just guessing. That makes me a little nervous about riding mine now. Luckily I also have a Segway i2 SE (slightly nicer than the obsolete i2). I haven't heard any such discussion about the redundancy of the Segway miniPro, or the new Segway miniPro Lite and miniPLUS models. Hopefully the fact that they are legal in the USA implies redundancy.

I don't care what the dealers are saying, the Elite+ is definitely being sold right now, and I have not seen any interruptions. It is still being sold on the web today by major Segway / Ninebot dealers. Not only that but now Ninebot models are being marketed and branded as Segways. (It is official.)

As far as stability is concerned, I have ridden both the MiniPro and the Elite+ and the Elite+ definitely feels more stable, and is not bothered by small bumps being hit too slowly like the Mini was. I suspect that it would take much more force to knock down an Elite hitting one wheel on something. While even the classic i2 Segaways will fail when hitting something with one wheel, the Mini is VERY SUPER Sensitive to hitting one wheel and falling over.

My main concern is the battery failing without warning, because no matter how careful you ride, it would seem to be unpreventable.

You're either kidding, ignorant, or in denial...

The post that started this topic shows the risk and danger of non-redundant systems on these devices. That scenario would NOT have happened on a real Segway with redundant systems. All that would have happened under that circumstance is a safety shutdown (and this has happened to me several times before final diagnosis of my unit's issue).

Former Segway owner Jimi Heselden died after reversing off a cliff. Obviously, this has nothing to do with redundant systems or inherent product safety.

President Bush stumbled when attempting to mount a Segway that was turned OFF. Again, not an issue of redundancy or product safety.

I have first-hand been saved injury or death by the original Segway redundant system design and technology, apparently lacking in the later Chinese knock-offs. After 11 years of Segway riding, I would be terrified to ride a self-balancing machine without this kind of system backup.

Spoke to NinebotUS today. They informed me that while the Elite models are no longer being manufactured, there is plenty of inventory available and plenty of parts. The Elite is not off the market and is still being sold.

Found out that one way to make the Segway Ninebots fail is to run them downhill on a full battery. Since they use regenerative technology when "braking," when they are fully charged the downhill run can cause the circuits to overcharge and overload, resulting in complete system failure without warning. Who knew?
(Where is the overcharge shunt safety circuit?)