Outrageous !

[Tarkus]

I don't normally link DRAFT threads here but I had to on this one.

General Growth Properties, with mall locations around the country has met a new level of "WE
HAVE NO CLUE".

http://www.ggp.com/properties/mall_directory.asp

First the reason for a Segway ban for those with disabilities was "No two wheel devices", then "Not ADA Approved". Let's not forget "too fast".

Well as it turns out it is none of the above. As a matter of fact they have no policy as you will see in this thread.

What they are saying is :
"You can't use a Segway because you don't look disabled enough"

http://www.draft.cc/draft3/DRAFTCHAT/tabid/61/forumid/2/view/topic/postid/970/Default.aspx

That's what I take from this. If you sit and you look like a "crip" then the Segway is fine.

This will come back to bite them in the azz some day as they have no credibility nor real policy in place.

Comments ?

Be Big,
Alan

[hellphish]

Really stupid

[Nelda]

Willful stupidity makes me absolutely livid.

Nelda

[william collins]

I sent the following to the general manager of The Mall in Paramus (Paramus Park) and then is attached the two answers I received

Hello I am a 74 Year old male and had been staying away from going to the Mall as I can't walk very far.... I have purchased a Segway with a seat and am now using it as my form of transportation..My question what is the mall policy on segway use ..I do have ADA card and handicap plaque for my car...But before I load my segway in the car and drive to Paramus Park unload it & enter the Mall..I would like to know if I won't be asked to leave by security..I do not use a wheelchair as I am not that disabled YET...
Regards ..William J Collins

Good morning Mr. Collins. This is the first time I’ve been asked this question. I will check with corporate security and get back to you as soon as I have an answer. Thank you for your inquiry.

Dear Mr. Collins,

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding the use of segways by our mall shoppers. I have contacted our General Counsel and they have determined that segways could be a hazard to our customers’ safety. Therefore, our policy prohibits the use of segways.

Please let me know if there is any way I can be of further assistance.


Sincerely,

Minnie Adams
General Manager
Paramus Park Shopping Center

[KSagal]

How would everyone respond to this?

I was not specifically asked, but I would respond:

Ms Adams,

I do not understand that statement. In what way would the segway, a device, pose a hazard to your customers' safety? If your General counsel has any study or safety rating by an authority on the topic, I would appreciate seeing it.

As I have indicated that I am a member of a protected class of persons, in that I use my segway as a mobility device, I believe your stated policy is not in compliance with the American with Disabilities Act. As such, if you have a written copy of your policy, I would like a copy of it for my attorneys. If you do not have a written policy to offer, I shall use your letter as the policy, and forward that on to them for action.

I am disappointed that your company has decided that this is the policy that you will adopt. I believe that the media is full of stories of people's lawful rights being disregarded for unlawful reasons...

You stated that I should let you know if there is a way for you to be of further assistance. I would like to see if there is a way that I could meet with you and introduce you to my mobility aide, and the manner that I use it. Perhaps we can work together on a way that I can shop at your facility, and still satisfy your saftety needs. I am sure that you will see, as have all the studies that I am aware of, that segways are safe, and very compatable with your operation...

I await your reply,



I am not saying that I would or have posted this letter. I offer it here, for people to make comment. What parts did you like, what parts not, and how would you improve it?

[dale@thecoys.net]

Dear Ms Adams,

You have aroused my curiosity. Your attorney states "could be a hazard to our customers’ safety".

There are obviously a lot of things that could be a hazard. Such devices as large strollers, shopping carts, wheelchairs, sticks, "wheelies", etc. Clearly, your attorney has some way to judge.

I'm curious what objective criteria are used to determine if a device could be a hazard to your customers. Could your attorney satisfy my curiosity, please?

[4rmgt]

After reading this, I am almost embarrased to say that my IT Consulting company used to have GGP as a client. Their corporate headquarters, and therefore legal department is located at 110 N Wacker Drive in Chicago.

I think a nicely written letter, less accusatory in nature than the one submitted by Mr. Sagal, would help with this situation. I do like the part of the letter where you ask them to submit the findings of a study in which they determine that Segways are dangerous to others.

Just remember that we always attract more flies with Honey than we do with Vinegar.

Thanks and good luck.

[Tarkus]

After reading this, I am almost embarrased to say that my IT Consulting company used to have GGP as a client. Their corporate headquarters, and therefore legal department is located at 110 N Wacker Drive in Chicago.

I think a nicely written letter, less accusatory in nature than the one submitted by Mr. Sagal, would help with this situation. I do like the part of the letter where you ask them to submit the findings of a study in which they determine that Segways are dangerous to others.

Just remember that we always attract more flies with Honey than we do with Vinegar.

Thanks and good luck.

No need to be embarrassed, business is business and all at General Growth are not bad people.

Just some there are terribly misguided.

What irks me most is what I had suspected for awhile. These places make the rules "day to day". I know that my local Malls have left me alone because they know, through my advocacy locally and with DRAFT, that I'll raise a stink publicly.

So the guy in charge at these malls figures he'll take his chances. I swear one store has orders for security not to even look my way.

But the clincher is the "we will let you sit on it but not stand". Of course that again was just "appeasing" one patron for awhile, maybe.

But what it also did was to close the door on their safety issue.
Sit or stand it's still a Segway with all the same characteristics.

As far as "nice letters", General Growth, Simon etal have received plenty of them and have pretty much ignored them.

They chose to remain in violation of the ADA.

Thanks for the input, just like to let you know where some stand.

Be Big,
Alan

[Tarkus]

Where to send letters, the poor people at the local are only "foot soldiers".
I found many on the following list that I have sent correspondence to.



General Growth Properties, Inc. (NYSE: GGP)
OFFICERS & EMPLOYEES
BOARD MEMBERS
110 N. Wacker Dr.
Chicago, IL 60606 United States (Map)
Phone: 312-960-5000
Fax: 312-960-5475

http://www.generalgrowth.com

Chairman Matthew Bucksbaum
Age 80, $226,200 salary, $225,000 bonus

CEO and Director John Bucksbaum
Age 49, $237,700 salary, $225,000 bonus

EVP, CFO, and Director Bernard Freibaum
Age 53, $4,364,653 salary, $1,000,000 bonus

Chief Corporate Development Officer Jean Schlemmer
Age 59, $960,192 salary, $425,000 bonus (prior to title change)

SVP and Assistant Secretary Ronald L. Gern
Age 47

President, COO, and Director Robert A. Michaels
Age 62, $3,987,156 salary, $800,000 bonus

SVP and Chief Investment Officer Joel Bayer
Age 42, $898,701 salary, $441,000 bonus

SVP Development John Bergstrom

SVP, Development Thomas D'Alesandro
Age 52

Secretary Marshall E. Eisenberg
Age 61

Senior Manager Media Relations David Keating

Chairman Matthew Bucksbaum
Age 80, $226,200 salary, $225,000 bonus

CEO and Director John Bucksbaum
Age 49, $237,700 salary, $225,000 bonus

Director Alan S. Cohen
Age 45

Director Anthony Downs
Age 75

EVP, CFO, and Director Bernard Freibaum
Age 53, $4,364,653 salary, $1,000,000 bonus

President, COO, and Director Robert A. Michaels
Age 62, $3,987,156 salary, $800,000 bonus

Director Thomas H. Nolan Jr.
Age 48

Director John Riordan
Age 68

Director Beth A. Stewart
Age 49

Copyright © 2007, Hoover's, Inc., All Rights Reserved

Next up: Simon Malls.......


Be Big,
Alan

[KSagal]

After reading this, I am almost embarrased to say that my IT Consulting company used to have GGP as a client. Their corporate headquarters, and therefore legal department is located at 110 N Wacker Drive in Chicago.

I think a nicely written letter, less accusatory in nature than the one submitted by Mr. Sagal, would help with this situation. I do like the part of the letter where you ask them to submit the findings of a study in which they determine that Segways are dangerous to others.

Just remember that we always attract more flies with Honey than we do with Vinegar.

Thanks and good luck.

This is good feed back. Let's hear more...

With regard to tone, everyone has their own. These are some heavy hitters. And, of course, I am not looking for flies. I have found that these guys get paid big bucks to think about big bucks... That is why some catch phrases and buzz words that their legal department will tune in on are sometimes important... I have been fairly successful in my business dealings, and especially in at least getting noticed...

Clearly, a well thought out and exicuted letter will take more than the 10 minutes I gave the one this morning, but I wanted to offer up some ideas...

I think we could learn from those who have "talking points" and discuss some ideas and presentations here, and then go off and write our letters...

[Tarkus]

OK, I'm "Bombastic" !

I agree with Karls comments above , these are $$$ people and playing nice is not always the best bet.
The list of Corporate Officers shows they make good money to say the least.

Being intelligent is.

Karls letter was to the point and far more "soft" than many would write. Myself included.

I have spent the better part of the last year and a half writing "nice, oh please listen" letters and they without fail fall on deaf ears.

I have no problem with letting them know that I intend to put their policies to the test.

They are in violation of the ADA.

Be Big,
Alan

[Cube128]

The "safety" problem that so often comes up is not something that we will be able to easily change. WE know they're safe, but everyone else? It has been drilled into them by advocacy groups and the media that the Segway is inherantly dangerous, and one showing up will only cause the reaction "We'd better get that thing out of here before it hurts somebody!". This is the issue that needs to be dealt with, fast.

[Sharkie]

I don't think you've got the thinking right there Cube128. The "safety issue" thing is a standard catch all that is being used lately to disallow the use of MANY things, not just Segways. It's a standard canned answer that is used when no logical reason can be found. It doesn't mean that they don't think the Segway is unsafe, just that they can't come up with a REAL reason to not allow it.

Jim

[Desert_Seg]

Jim,

Your partially right. The safety card is played due to the risk of liability and being able to hid around potential liability is a good option for any business.

Yes, they are likely in violation of ADA regulations (I say likely because there will be exceptions to every blanket statement) but using the safety of many sure does help "ease their pain".

Steven

[ArtL]

Jim,

Your partially right. The safety card is played due to the risk of liability and being able to hid around potential liability is a good option for any business.

Yes, they are likely in violation of ADA regulations (I say likely because there will be exceptions to every blanket statement) but using the safety of many sure does help "ease their pain".

Steven

Without an authoritative study to back up those claims, all they have are the opinions of one or two lawyers who work for them. However, contrary to popular belief among lawyers, lawyers are not all knowing, and corporate officers should take their advice on matters outside the bounds of the law and legal procedure with no more weight than that of any other employee. </Lawyer Rant>

My next brilliant observation :cool: is that the "safety" buzzword is almost as silver-bullet like as the equally bogus "Security" buzzword. We are living is sad times when the old women of the Safety community and the irrational paranoids of the Security community have such a say in how their betters live. Both groups are being granted authority far in excess of their abilities.

[KSagal]

Wow! Some of my best friends are safety and security folks...LOL


Actually, I still believe that facts have a value over speculation, but only when the speaker is put on the spot.

Ask for the study or document where the segway is anayzed and deemed to be dangerous, and when they cannot find one, show them one where it is documented to be otherwize, by the US or other government. There are a few of them out there, and you can find access to them on segway's website...

[ArtL]

Wow! Some of my best friends are safety and security folks...LOL


Yeah, me too... they're still old women and paranoids, respectively, though.

Actually, I still believe that facts have a value over speculation, but only when the speaker is put on the spot.

Ask for the study or document where the segway is anayzed and deemed to be dangerous, and when they cannot find one, show them one where it is documented to be otherwize, by the US or other government. There are a few of them out there, and you can find access to them on segway's website...

Exactly. Of course, a good executive would have already asked his lawyer to show the references on how he came up with those conclusions that are outside his domain of expertise. The lawyer won't be the one in the hot seat for the company following his bad advice when a Deputy US Attorney comes around to ask about thier ADA violations.

[Tarkus]

If I read the original post correctly management has said "You can use your Segway if it has a seat".

So with that I don't see how they can come back with the safety issue.
A Segways a Segway, seat or not so now where is their position?

That's why I linked this one here, so a wider audience could help a simple minded fool such as myself in understanding this.....

Be Big,
Alan

[KSagal]

If I read the original post correctly management has said "You can use your Segway if it has a seat".

So with that I don't see how they can come back with the safety issue.
A Segways a Segway, seat or not so now where is their position?

That's why I linked this one here, so a wider audience could help a simple minded fool such as myself in understanding this.....

Be Big,
Alan


Actually, I think there are two different issues here... This thread was started about one event, and then a second one was introduced. At least that is how I read it...

On the seat issue, I find that laughable. They will let you glide on a seg with an aftermarket seat on it, even though the seg without one, which has been tested by the Consumer Product Safety Council, is not allowed...

That would put them in the manufacturing business. If they will only approve a device that has been modified, but not one that has been safety tested, how can that possibly give them a better legal standing?

And on the second case, where a local manager said she contacted her legal department and they decided to ban segways our of safety considerations to their patrons, they are the ones who need to be put on the spot to show a loss of safety.

One case will only approve the machine if it is used as it was not intended, and the other has dis-approved it without knowing how it tested in safety tests, yet decided out of the ether that it poses a risk.

[Desert_Seg]

Sorry Karl, the CPSC has nothing to do with the Segway (with or without the seat) and has never tested it. In fact, the Segway is an unregulated product and, as such, there are only voluntary guidelines to follow.

Steven

[GlennO]

I think that we drifted so far away from the main topic that we lost sight of the obvious - - These corporate idiots have decided that disabled people cannot stand up!

Isn't there an ADA attorney that we can all send $5 or $10 to?

Glenn

[Tarkus]

Today's hearing in the Las Cruces New Mexico has been postponed to a future date. The TRO will stay if effect until adjudicated.

http://www.aclu-nm.org/News_Events/news_4_12_07.html

I am going to watch this to see what comes next.

Be Big,
Alan

[dale@thecoys.net]

Today's hearing in the Las Cruces New Mexico has been postponed to a future date. The TRO will stay if effect until adjudicated.

http://www.aclu-nm.org/News_Events/news_4_12_07.html

I am going to watch this to see what comes next.

Be Big,
Alan

The info is slightly incorrect, and the link is not (yet) current. Bottom line: a mandatory settlement conference will be held in Las Cruces, on May 29.

When I have time, I'll post the info in the proper thread about the Las Cruces Suit:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=15138

[william collins]

Karl I thought your letter was appropriate and hopefully with your permission I have copied and pasted it to an e-mail to Minnie Adams at the Mall. Soon as I get an answer and I;m sure there will be one ..I'll post it here again..And if she agrees to meet with me I would appreciate any one local to come along to show the segway is safe....

[KSagal]

My letter was more a template than finished product, but if it was of value, that is great!

One thing I would do prior to meeting with her, would be to go to the SEGWAY website and have some of those studies printed and in your hands at the meeting...

I have found it is one thing to have a study to mention, it is quite another thing to have it with you in your hand...

Good luck.

[william collins]

This is the answer I received after sending a copy of Karls suggested letter......
Mr. Collins,

I’m sorry you are not happy with our decision. Though we are happy to accommodate you with a wheel chair conveniently available at our Customer Service booth, you indicated that was not appropriate for your needs at this time.

I would enjoy meeting with you, but the decision not to allow segways at the mall is made on a corporate level.

I have shared your email with our counsel and he has asked that you have your attorney contact him. His contact information is:

Robert H. Kalinsky
Assistant General Counsel
General Growth Properties Inc.
110 North Wacker Drive
Chicago, Illinois 60606
312-960-5736
Robert.kalinsky@ggp.com (Robert.kalinsky@ggp.com)



Sincerely,

Minnie Adams
General Manager
Paramus Park Shopping Center
Paramus, NJ 07652



From: WColl8374@aol.com [mailto:WColl8374@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 4:25 AM

[KSagal]

Bill,

My guess is that they have nothing to offer in support of their position. They have likely decided that you will not go thru the expense of paying for a lawyer just to speak to their counsel.

In most cases, they are right. By putting this back in the hands of telling you to have an attorney contact their attorney, I believe they feel they have effectively dismissed this issue...

The ball is clearly now back where it started. It will take letters to their attorney, where you ask for his documentation, and he does not respond, or asks you to have your attorney ask or any number of other possibilities...

I guess a lot of this depends on just how much you want to shop there...

This brings up the old addage, "It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission".

Another factor would be, just how much trouble are you willing to get into, just to prove a point...

I have often pushed an issue where I felt I was right, even to the level of annoying some 'would be' napoleon. You need to be ready to pay the consequenses if you do that...

Once, in the year 3 BS (Before Segway), I was on a small neighborhood road with my electric Golf Cart. I had one of the neighborhood mothers with me, and in the rumble seat behind us, we had two toddlers and an infant. We were returning from a 2 mile Dunkin Donuts run, when I got pulled over by a local cop.

He actually pulled right up behind me, (I was doing about 8 mph) and ran his siren for about 2 or 3 seconds... The kids just about exploded! They were screaming, having been so rudely and loudly startled. I am almost glad that I had another adult there with me, or I may have lost it... He spoke loud and big, about arresting me, and towing the cart in...

If it were not for the crying babies, and the embarrassed neighbor, I would have forced him to. I would have liked to see the reaction he would have gotten from his contemporaries if I arrived for booking in cuffs, and my golf cart, with the big blue umbrella for shade, came in on the flatbed...

Instead, his plan worked. He upset enough of my party, that I just went home, and that was the last time that cart made that run...

I am just enought of an a$$ to go to that mall, and make them enforce their policy, or at least enough of one to consider it...

But, my advice is easy, as I am not you... I am not a big fan of Malls, and I do not regularly shop at them, nor do I shop where I am not treated as I like to be treated...

I wish you luck in resolving this to your contentment. I am sorry that your efforts have not been met with better results so far...

[4rmgt]

I just had a thought as I was reading about being a fan of malls. Well think of out some protests have worked in the past. They boycott the advertisers or sponsors!

Have you given thought of contacting the tenants of the malls and letting them know that you will not be shopping at their stores as the mall will not allow you in? Then let them pressure GGP to allow customers access to their stores.

You have to hit them where it counts, their WALLETS!

[polo_pro]

I just had a thought as I was reading about being a fan of malls. Well think of out some protests have worked in the past. They boycott the advertisers or sponsors!

Have you given thought of contacting the tenants of the malls and letting them know that you will not be shopping at their stores as the mall will not allow you in? Then let them pressure GGP to allow customers access to their stores.

You have to hit them where it counts, their WALLETS!

I think your advice (and suggested course of action) for able bodied segway owners is correct. But for disabled people, I think lawyers, the ADA and court cases are the best route since laws exist that apply to this situation.

Has anyone thought to contact the ACLU in NM to see if their attorney can refer you to ACLU lawyers local to William Collins? In NJ, I'd think the ACLU would have a list of lawyers willing to do "open and shut" pro bono (sp?) cases that get lots of press. Just look at how much press the NM case is getting!

[Desert_Seg]

These types of cases aren't open and shut, much as we would like to believe they are. If these were so easy there would be a line of lawyers waiting to take up this action.

There are lots of "hidden" issues here, some of which could come to play very quickly.

One of the first is a tenet of law that states that the right of one (or some) can be superseded by the safety of many. Therefore, if a court of law deems that there is an inherent risk to others because of Segway usage they can ban the Segway use, even if it is for mobility use. Of course, at this point they then must address the need for alternative mobility aids but that is an issue subsequent to Segway usage.

I have spent countless hours (easily more than 50) over the past five or six months studying this issue and the associated laws and can easily say that the laws, while they try, are far from completely clear and there is wiggle room to be found (for those that don't want to allow Segways, that is).

The ACLU case in NM is potentially a good bellwether, especially if they (the ACLU) decides that this issue is one they want to take nationwide. Individual revolts also help garner attention BUT can also backfire if one is not careful.

I would recommend caution rather than forcefulness. Slow and steady rather than hard and fast would be a much better approach. Wait for the NM decision and then see what happens (is it in favor of the glider? does it get appealed? does it lead to other supporting decisions?).

Steven

[polo_pro]

I would recommend caution rather than forcefulness. Slow and steady rather than hard and fast would be a much better approach. Wait for the NM decision and then see what happens (is it in favor of the glider? does it get appealed? does it lead to other supporting decisions?).

This isn't my issue, so I shouldn't be contributing to the discussion. But I do hear the "slow and steady" comment often. I'd like to ask, today, when might a "slow and steady" approach be completed? 2008? 2009? 2010? (Yes, I know this question really isn't answerable. I'm trying to get folks to draw a line in the sand...for a day when they say, we've tried "slow and steady" for far too long...let's try something else.)

I sense alot of frustration among the disable folks in our community. The segway's been out for almost 5 years now. And during that time DRAFT as made great strides. However, I'm going to speculate that many don't want another 5 years to go by as we head down the "slow and steady" slippery slope.

Again, this isn't my issue. I'm only repeating what I've seen others say here...constructive people (often volunteers) working the issue and disabled users who want all these ADA issues cleared up yesterday.

ps - As an able bodied glider, I have no expectation that any concessions made for ADA will be extended to all gliders. I am more than happy to see my gliding curtailed at any place...well, until I get old enough to have a disability!

[safety1st]

One of the first is a tenet of law that states that the right of one (or some) can be superseded by the safety of many. Therefore, if a court of law deems that there is an inherent risk to others because of Segway usage they can ban the Segway use, even if it is for mobility use.
Steven

One thing to consider when determining the safety factor for ADA is that it must be real, not a precived a danger to others.

David

[GlennO]

David, you make an excellent point. There are no problems with Segway users running down people. What if someone in a motorized wheelchair had a heart attack in a mall and the wheelchair took off at full speed and mowed down dozens of shoppers?

You really do have to 'walk a mile in their shoes' before anyone can make blanket judgements like banning Segways in malls. After all, the ADA laws don't list accredited vehicles because they know that the list can change, and everytime it does, this 'new' method of transportation could be 'banned' until proven safe.

I don't think that cars are safe- LOOK AT THEIR TRACK RECORD! Let's ban cars, ok?

Glenn

[IcanGlide]

I just sent letters (e-mail) to both of my Senators and my rep in the House, and it was as easy as posting here, no stamps. Election year is right around the corner and ears tend to get a bit bigger. I don't have lawyer money and really I shouldn't have to spend a dime. I know, I know, that is how the system works, but I think it's time to put the wheel to the road.

Whadda ya say guys?

Frank

[Desert_Seg]

Plo - I'm not advocating sitting back and waiting, I'm just advocating taking measured steps, not wild and crazy steps. Draft is doing "something" in the wings, ACLU is working on it in NM. Wouldn't it be smarter to work with one of those organizations to further their (and your) cause than to possibly cause a ruckus that then sets everybody back a step?

Dave / Glenn - No, it can be a perceived threat (that is, one that has the possibility of happening but maybe has not yet done so). However, it can't be a made up threat. Please note that there are MANY instances of folks having Segway accidents on YouTube, and there is a subpoenable database at Inc. (NOTE TO ALL - I'm not saying this is a defensable argument, only one that can be used and, remember, judges are fickle beings!).

Frank - Your step is exactly what needs to be done...and we all should do this.

Steven

[Tarkus]

I know I'm the guy that "Insights" these riots but Steven has a point. Obviously Mr. Funk in New Mexico brought this issue to the legal front and that will play out as all things in the courts.

I also believe that there are far more of us than I would have thought. I have been receiving many messages from sites other than here or DRAFT from people using the Segway as a mobility aid.

Writing your Senators and Congressmen/woman is a tried and true method of showing dissatisfaction with something. The same goes for 'Places of Public Accommodations".

A head of steam is building and great strides have been made in a relatively short time.......patience is a virtue.

DID I SAY THAT !

We all knew going in that there would be places that would need to have the "Barriers" removed. Go out and exercise your rights, be seen as visibility is a key factor.

DRAFT always believed in "Education over Litigation" and still does. But the time may come when some have no other choice.

That felt very unlike me....lucid...Mr. Lorenzo, HELLLLLLP !

Be Big,
Alan

PS-Yes I just took my pills.

[polo_pro]

I still think it would be worthwhile to have another (or several) NM disabled glider involved in the case. If the mall management saw a few more folks in similar circumstances as Mr. Funk step up and ask the judge to be included in the case, then they'd see this is an issue that won't go away.

At the very least, I'd hope these other gliders would be included in the temporary court order to make the point.

[dale@thecoys.net]

I still think it would be worthwhile to have another (or several) NM disabled glider involved in the case. If the mall management saw a few more folks in similar circumstances as Mr. Funk step up and ask the judge to be included in the case, then they'd see this is an issue that won't go away.

At the very least, I'd hope these other gliders would be included in the temporary court order to make the point.

Perhaps you should write the ACLU and suggest that.

Of course, to step up to the judge, there has to be a hearing. Which there hasn't been yet, and one is not yet scheduled. And if the scheduled settlement conference is successful, there won't be a hearing or a trial or whatever.

Frankly, from some other information I have, there seems to be a lot more going on in this case than is being discussed here. And a lot more legal talent available to Mr. Funk than is present in this forum. And a lot more thoughtful consideration by Mr. Funk and his lawyers.

...and a lot more thought on the "other side", also.