Alternate tires for segways....

[Madsegs]

Many tyre replacements are avaliable and not too hard to fit. Lets try to get a knowlegebase of experiences and tyres, comfort and rides from these.
Tyres that i know of are:

Bridgestone M39F 60/100-14 (soft terrain tyre)
Other possibles are M40 and M29

Pirelli Scorpion MX Mid Soft 32 60/100-14NHS 29M (soft terrain tyre)

Bridgestone TW5 2.75-14 (only fits i167/i170 fenders)

Kenda K760 Trackmaster2 60/100-14 TL 38M

Kenda 770F Southwick 60/100-14 TL 30M

Maxxis M7304 60/100-14 TT 30M

Kenda 771F Millville 60/100-14 TL 30M

Kenda 772F Carlsbad 60/100-14 TL 30M

Michelin Starcross MS 2 front 60/100-14 TT 30M

Bridgestone M401 60/100 R14 30M (replaces M57)

Chenshin C186 2.75-14 (trial)

Bridgestone 403 60/100-14 (front)

Pirelli ML12 2.25-14 reinf 35J(road-moped)

Pirelli MT32A 60/100-14 (front)

EXCELERATOR HF343 60/100-14

Chenshin C183A 2.5 (and) 2.75-14 (2.75 does not fit all seg models)

Maxxis Maxcross IT 60/100-14 30MTT (front)

When replying please add what model you have used it on allong with your comments.
Thankx

[GlennO]

You forgot to ask if any of us would prefer Tweels!

Glenn

[Zorba9]

... great job of tire cataloging Antony! These are all various brands & treads for junior motorcycling and motocross riding. I use the Michelin Starcross S2's - a little smaller than Segway originals which is good, the thick mud doesn't jam up under the fenders! Those babys will claw themselves & Segway up 40degree muddy slopes without hesitation. The best studded Segway originals could/can climb 45 degree muddy slopes - literally digging in with the carbide spikes. You'll get the frown face on Gen 1's but power/speed limiter will never kick in nor beep at you - no matter how hard you push the HT it won't shut down, just keeps steady climbing.................oops ;)

10.0 still rules for Gen 1! (note to self - never,never send back to mothership!)

Antony add all of Segways different Standard and ETT styles for a complete list. The list of possibilities for XT's/X2's would be staggering too.

KOG

[hellphish]

I'd like to find some tires that give me a better ride. I don't find myself lacking grip, just comfort. I really love climbing stuff on my segway too. I need to find some knobbies. I don't really like the shinchens

[BringOnI2]

You forgot to ask if any of us would prefer Tweels!

Glenn

Seconded. The wiki page on it puts production of them expected to start in 2016 though :(

[Madsegs]

That goes without saying, we all want them....im sure a set from inc on ebay could fetch more than the cost of one complete segway . They only have 10 samples and michelin will not make me any , i asked.

The MS2 (michelin) is a very hard compound and i can only see wet muddy or snow conditions being the advantages. I also doubt you will ever get a puncture with them. As for harder ground and concrete they have good traction in wet conditions but the bumpy ride put me off. Big plus is that they fit all segway models. They have good clearance of the fenders and do not collect dirt.
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=464&fullsize=1

The chenshin is so far the best for me and i use them everyday. Soft compound heavy tread but close knobs. Disavantage is that they collect dirt, rub the fenders on hard cornering and do not fit all models. Also hard to find in the correct size. They are the most comfortable tyres i have tested and they add a little speed too. Turning is far more powerful with the added diameter.
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=463&fullsize=1

I have just worked out how to upload pics so i will get some more done soon.

[joe]

GREAT list! With pictures it would be even better. This is a pic of the Michelin Starcross S2:

432

Edit: Madseg's picture is better (the one I found is not the Segway size and looks a little different).

Regarding the clearance problems with the Chenshin and others... here I get back to my idea of a fender extension (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=12932). :) I've not made them yet, but I'll investigate the costs for a machined version.

--
Johannes

[polo_pro]

GREAT list! With pictures it would be even better. This is a pic of the Michelin Starcross S2:

I'll second that. Karl could probably help since he's probably bought a set of each of these types of tires! Karl, would you be willing to make your collection available to someone local to you for picture taking?

[ryan_walters]

Chenshin C803 2.50-14

See here for comments:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=14530

[wwhopper]

To the head of Bridgestone USA's training. I am working with him right now on a project for my car club.

I know I will have him on a Segway during an upcoming event, so of course we will have to get it to run on Bridgestone tires!

[cmonkey]

I'm currently using the Kings kt-962 in a 2.75-14.
They are a bit large for 170 fenders, and they needed to be shaved down a couple of mm.

Today I tried to fit them to a 180 and even shaved, it's a no go.
For a 180 you'd probably need a 2.50-14.

You can see how they fit from the link in my sig.

[KSagal]

I am currently using my Ketts (Chen shin 186) on my E and because I cannot find any more, I am using IRC Motorcross iX kids on my i2. I did not have good luck with the kings...


http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11814/normal_headlights1a.JPG

This shot from my gallery shows the chen shins...


http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11814/normal_r0300142.jpg

IRC on the i2

[Madsegs]

Karl are the IRC´s comfortable or mainly for offroad? As compared with your C186´s.

[KSagal]

Karl are the IRC´s comfortable or mainly for offroad? As compared with your C186´s.


I run them all the time, now, more because I only have one set of wheels, and I am too lazy to keep changing them...

THey are a tiny bit smaller than stock, so I would guess the affect the speed to the negative about as much as the ketts do to the positive...

They have a grippy ride that I like, but the rubber lugs are a bit too far apart for my taste, and they have that "Snow Tire" rumble. Not as bad as super ketts (183's) but not as good as regular ketts... as far as the rumble...

For grip, I would put them on a par with your ketts or maybe a point or two better... NOTHING seems to stop them, mud, wet rocks, grass...

In over a hundred or two miles, I only had one slip, (no fall, just that momentary dance we all know) and that was with one tire in soft sand that drifted onto the sidewalk... If I had seen it, or planned for it, I could easily have glided thru it, but it was in a blind spot, all the sudden I am attempting a gradual turn and one wheel goes into 2 or 3 inches of loose sand... Again, no fall or even close, but a momentary spin on one side, then perfect again... (Obviously, the perfect refers to the machine, not the man...LOL)

[Madsegs]

Found a way to get the MS2 more comfy and much quieter.
As the noise is from the centre row knobs which are far apart...
I ran the segway in power assist with one wheel jammed (to act as my lath) and used a small grinder (115mm) with a sanding pad on to remove 3mm from the centre row. This allows the first left and right rows of knobs to touch the ground at the same time as the centre.
I have tried my best to make a pic, a wet tyre on paper with no load. The original only runs on the centre track.
Hope this helps.
Make sure you grind straight and when done do some in reverse direction to make a cleaner finish. Grind/sand until you start to sand half of the left and right tracks as in the photo.

[Madsegs]

Though i would try my dunlops again andshave some off but it did not make much of an impact on the ride. Still a bit bumpy on hard surface.....
I will be getting 6 new models this week and i believe that i have a tyre to better the chenshins (Ketts), will update when tested. not listed on my first list as i have not tested them yet. the common problem is to fit the new segways and some problems on the i180.
437
Pic is of my dunlops, shaved but no real improvement as i had with the MS2´s. The dunlops also had a smudge on hard breaking on a hard surface so they are not as good out of the mud as the Ketts.
My Ketts have now covered +5000km and are showing a little wear and tear but they will do another 15000 easily. So far they are the best.

[Madsegs]

Segway tyres are 100/65-14
Most of our replacements are 60/100-14

First number is the width in mm so this meens that we are running narrower tyres -correct
The second number is the % of the width in mm - (so we are as in the case of the MS2 60/100-14 running 60/60mm)

The last number is the rim diameter.

So with a few calculation i realised that an 80/80-14 would measure 80/64mm wider than the alternatives listed (most) but almost exactly the segway hight. slightly streched to for the rim it should clear all fenders.........
Correct??
There are plenty of great 80/80-14 tyres around scooter slicks, reinforced, snow, medium , hard and soft compound.
Anyone tried some.
I have a few on there way to me and will post the results after testing.
Many manufacturers list 2.5 or 2.75 next to 80/80-14, i think that the 2.5 can be achieved (fitting all segs without mods) just by fitting it onto the wider seg rim? (Note: 2.75 only fits i167/170 fenders)

I JUST NEED MORE RIMS as i am tired of unmounting tyres that work in search of a better one.

[KSagal]

I see it differently...

I have aways thought that the tire size is backwards to what you mentioned...

100/65 - 14 is 100 mm wide, by 65% tall as measured in the sidewall. The 14 inch rim size seems to be what everyone aggrees to...

I have always thought that they do not measure the tire itself, as that would mean that extra thick rubber would measure differently than thin tires, and also, the actual measurements have never met the theoritical size...

I believe that they measure and report the air space within a properly inflated tire.

The tires that come with the segway have a relatively small amount of rubber between the tube and the road... Ketts or the many knobby tires have much more...

This is why people are finding more success with tires that are 100/60 instead of other sizes...

The other factor that is a major player is that we keep taking tires from the dirt bike industry. Those rims that are standard are much narrower than segway rims. The result of this is that the sidewalls on segway tires becomes less, because that space in the tire is consumed by the tread width.

I would say that you could mount a 100/60 dunlop dirt tire on both a dirt bike and a seg, and the mounted and inflated tires would have different diameters because they would have different widths...

I would further guess that an 80/80 tire would act in the following way... The tire will need to expand wider than designed. Currently, when we do this to the previous tires, it had the affect of flattening out the tread that wraps around the corners of a dirt bike tire. On the 80/80, the tread starts out thinner, and the sidewall starts out taller, so I believe the affect will be that the sidewall will be what gets shortend, as oppose to the tread getting widened. I would like to see this, but think that the user will wind up riding on the sidewalls more than we currently do...

I suspect that the reason we need a shorter sidewall (60 vs 65) is because of the thicker rubber of the tires themselves... If you were to shave the tire lugs down to the point that the tire was the same thickness of the segway tires, then you would not need to find a new size...

And, yes, I did do a lot of tire investigation before I found Ketts, and I really liked them, and should have predicted their loss of availabliity, and saved more for myself... I truely believe they are a special tire...

[ryan_walters]

I have aways thought that the tire size is backwards to what you mentioned...

100/65 - 14 is 100 mm wide, by 65% tall as measured in the sidewall. The 14 inch rim size seems to be what everyone aggrees to...


Isn't this what madsegs just said, just in different words? I believed that how madsegs explained it was exactly how it worked. Of course there are differences in manufacurers.


This is why people are finding more success with tires that are 100/60 instead of other sizes...


I think most people are finding success with 60/100 sized tires. I've never seen any tire that's close to 100/60 without it being a segway tire.


I would say that you could mount a 100/60 dunlop dirt tire on both a dirt bike and a seg, and the mounted and inflated tires would have different diameters because they would have different widths...


Yes, I would expect the inflated diameter to be less on the segway as a result of the wider (100mm or so) rim.


I would further guess that an 80/80 tire would act in the following way... The tire will need to expand wider than designed. Currently, when we do this to the previous tires, it had the affect of flattening out the tread that wraps around the corners of a dirt bike tire.


Lots of 60/100 tires are being used on segways. This is much narrower than an 80/80. It does strech the tire out wider than it would be on a dirt bike, and it does flatten out the tread that would normally be more round on a dirt bike. However I think this is actually good. A dirt bike can 'lean' going through corners, and needs the rounded tread. A segway isn't capable of this (unless on one wheel), and therefore the tire is always perpendicular to the ground. Flatter tread would probably help here.

I don't know for sure, but I think an 80/80 could work. It isn't going to be streched quite as much (wide) as a 60/100. If anything, I would think the 80/80 would be slightly too big. Might only work on 167/170 fenders. I've seen typical inflated diameters of 80/80-14 tires online. Comparing that to my own measurements, I think the segways tires are closer to a 90/65-14 or so. A 60/100 when streched onto a segway rim, is slightly smaller in most cases than the original. If the 60/100 was mounted on a rim it was designed for, a dirt bike, I think it would be slightly larger than the segway tire. It loosing a bit of diameter because of the wide rim helps. It's normally 60 wide, and 60mm high. Put it on a wide rim (~100mm), and it's less than 60mm high. Take an 80/80. 80mm wide, and 80% of 80 high, around 64mm. It's already very close to the required width, so it won't loose a lot of diameter upon inflation on segway rims. It's also 64mm high as opposed to 60. Might work, might not. Might depend on fenders.

What we really need is a tire, size either 60/100-14, or 2.50-14 that isn't a true 'motocross' tire. They're quite bumpy on pavement. We need slightly less agressive tread in the same size. The C186's (ketts) were this kind of tire; a trail tire, as opposed to a MX tire. Only they were only available 2.75-14, and as such pushed the limits of fender clearance. The C803's (2.50-14) I used in the winter are much less aggressive than a true MX tire, and only very slightly more aggressive than the C186's. Not enough more to be bumpy.

[KSagal]

I had missed the subtlety of the difference between 100/65 and 60/100. I did not realize the reversal in the numbers. I was only reacting to the 60 vs 65 affect. Sorry for that...

[Madsegs]

Ther are 2 tyres that match the XT rims exactly, both from Kenda.
K572 (on road /offroad)


And the K546F Speedracer Front (road)


http://www.kendausa.com/atv/onroad.html

Please note that i have not and will not be testing these as i run city tours.....but i found them online.

[zac]

Anyone using 60/100 14's without a tube?

[KSagal]

I use tubes, but some guys in California are using tires that say they need tubes, without them... At least one did post that he had no problem...

[Madsegs]

Anyone using 60/100 14's without a tube?

Hola Zac

Not really possible as the 60 width needs to be forced out with the tube to fit 100. It would be VERY difficult to get the tyre/rim to seal without a tube.

Hope this helps.

Antony

[Isidore]

Hola Zac

Not really possible as the 60 width needs to be forced out with the tube to fit 100. It would be VERY difficult to get the tyre/rim to seal without a tube.

Hope this helps.

Antony

If you pump them up with an airline and if necessary use a strap round the outside of the tyre to distort it temporarily until the air forces a seal and pops the tyre into place this might work. For large truck tyres and the like there is even a special tool, an air reservoir with a short pipe to the tyre valve and a quick opening tap to force a lot of air in fast. Called a bead sealer, I think. Total overkill for a Seg but the principle is the point...

[ian purvis]

Thanks for the responses folks, I didn't realise I was logged in earlier as my son Zac.

Went ahead and got the tubes and it all worked fine. Even with the tubes I had to go to about 35psi before I could get the tires to spread enough on the rims. Do they stay there ok when you go back to normal pressure?

[Madsegs]

Thanks for the responses folks, I didn't realise I was logged in earlier as my son Zac.

Went ahead and got the tubes and it all worked fine. Even with the tubes I had to go to about 35psi before I could get the tires to spread enough on the rims. Do they stay there ok when you go back to normal pressure?
I use 20PSI and thats about minimum as any less and the tyre tends to move on heavy breaking (on the rim). 35 must be a heavy /hard ride.

[cmonkey]

To help with getting a tire to seat properly. I used the inner tubes to prep the tires.
The first time I tried to put on the tire, it was a pain because the tires were stacked in storage and the beads were almost touching each other. I actually had to use a strap to compress and deform the tire in order to get the bead to spread out and be able to catch air.
On my second set, I used the innner tubes. What I did was put the tubes in the tires (off the wheel) and over inflate the inner tubes. Then I let the tires cook in the sun for an anfternoon. Then I took out the innertubes later in the evening when it was much cooler, and the tires had take a new new shape with the beads spread out nicely. I put the tires on the wheels, and didn't have to fight a bit to get them to seat.

One note: To help keep a good seal, I used aircraft gasket material to seal the bead area. It's tacky enough to keep things from sliding about, but not so permanent, allowing me to easily swap and experiment with other tires.

[Madsegs]

I have found and tested a tyre that is second to none. Wider than a Chenshin (KETT) with very similar tread. Also as the chenshin rides on 3 tracks of knobs, the Bridgestone (KETT 2) trial wing 5 rides on all 5 giving a bigger footprint giving it has unrivaled grip. Best thing is that they are readily avaliable and still in production. The compound is softer than KETTs and makes for a more comfortable ride (not that the KETTs had a problem in this area). Clearance from the top of the fender is 2mm more than KETTs but as it is a wider tyre it still only fits an i167/170 fender. With a little cutting/grinding it should fit an i180 but i am not going to try that yet as i have i167 fenders on my new XT and it works perferctly. As for the i2 i do not have one so im not sure. Top speed is 22km/h, the chenshins is 23km/h due to the slight increase in overall diameter.
KETT on the left and KETT2 on the right.
451452453
454455
I bought them easily online from http://www.neumaticosdemoto.es/
and they have 11 countries listed just click on the right hand link.
Search for 2.75-14 (remember to place the "-" in the speed section or it will not search.
If you need anyhelp or extra info just let me know.

[joe]

Wow, great finding Antony! :D You payed 47.90 Euro ($65) per tire incl. shipping, right? :eek: For Germany it's cheaper - 35.50 Euro. Delticom is a reliable tire shop, I bought several car tires there already. (For German customers - www.1-2-motorradreifen.de is even cheaper, but without shipping costs).

Do we need a tube? If yes, what type/size etc.? Valve modifications? (Link to appropriate thread would be ok if that's already answered.)

--
Johannes

[gbrandwood]

Antony, that seems to be a super find. But, for finding such a tyre, and taking the time and trouble to document and share it here for free, you need to rename it. We've had KETTs. These should be METTs, Madsegs Enhanced Traction Tyres. Good for you. :D

[KSagal]

Antony, that seems to be a super find. But, for finding such a tyre, and taking the time and trouble to document and share it here for free, you need to rename it. We've had KETTs. These should be METTs, Madsegs Enhanced Traction Tyres. Good for you. :D


I agree. It may be that the King of the road, the Kett tire, has met the it's match!

Long live the Mett !

I have found one last set of chen shins and they are still in transit in. If that works, I am golden.

Either way, I believe I will be ordering some of these cool Metts, to have available to me....

[Madsegs]

Wow, great finding Antony! :D You payed 47.90 Euro ($65) per tire incl. shipping, right? :eek: For Germany it's cheaper - 35.50 Euro. Delticom is a reliable tire shop, I bought several car tires there already. (For German customers - www.1-2-motorradreifen.de (http://www.1-2-motorradreifen.de) is even cheaper, but without shipping costs).

Do we need a tube? If yes, what type/size etc.? Valve modifications? (Link to appropriate thread would be ok if that's already answered.)

--
Johannes
They are the easiest tyres i have had to fit. One without a tube and one with a tube but the one without lost air overnight (+-2psi). As it is a "tube tyre" i would recommend it.
Standard 80x80-14 or 2.75-14 (same thing) tube. No mods. I will make a few pics the next time i do it but it is slightly different from i170 to i180 rims.
On the i180 i cut the valve from the outside-as much as you can see cut it off with a blade. The rounded half that is normally inside the rim i leave there and just push the new tube valve through it as this protects the new tube fom the raised sections inside the i180 rim. A 90ª bend as in the i2 may work better but i have no access to them here.

i170 gets pushed through the 90ª bend. For the i170 a valve with a metal thread and nuts to keep it place is better (you will need to very slightly widen the hole and add a washer inside and out to support it.

I always inflate and deflate the tube/tyre twice to let the tube take the correct shape inside as sometimes when fitting there are a few wrinkles (maby im over cautious).

Also notice that my ketts have done some serious milage and the Bridgestones are new. Run at normal segway (15psi) pressures they use all 5 knob tracks and the soft rubber grips like nothing i have tested before. I bought the tubes at a local tyre store so no website. The michelin HD is overkill. The 4 ply rating and extra rubber there is no need for hard tough motocross tubes that are more difficult to fit (slightly)

[polo_pro]

I tried to give Madsegs rep points for the find. But it says I already gave him too many!

[KSagal]

I've done a couple of searches for that Bridgestone tire in the United States, and so far have not had a hit. Does anyone know of a source on this side of the pond?

[Speedy67]

Great find Madseg! Would love to use this tyre on my i180. As I understand this will only work if I change to i170 fenders, right?

Thanks for your support!

Helmut

[Madsegs]

I've done a couple of searches for that Bridgestone tire in the United States, and so far have not had a hit. Does anyone know of a source on this side of the pond?
I also noticed that it does not appear on the US bridgestone site but it does on the EU one..(for a change!)
EU site http://www.bridgestone.eu/bfe/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=a6eef5ee10355010VgnVCM10000051 01a10aRCRD&vgnextchannel=8d9329270fd97010VgnVCM1000005101a10a RCRD

Sorry guys. I could post them to you but a previous reply said that they are cheaper in Germany. Try him

[Madsegs]

Great find Madseg! Would love to use this tyre on my i180. As I understand this will only work if I change to i170 fenders, right?

Thanks for your support!

Helmut
Before you buy fenders and tyes give me a week as i have more snow road tyres on the way. They might work on the i180 and be avaliable in the USA? But yes they fit perfectly with i170 fenders but a bit tight on a i180.

[Madsegs]

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=5003&department=647&Division=6#

They are the correct size and very cheap...same tread pattern as Metts and Ketts

[wwhopper]

I tried to give Madsegs rep points for the find. But it says I already gave him too many!

I keep forgetting to give good points where good points are due, so in PLO's honor, I added some points to the famouns MadSegs, one day it would be great to get to Madrid to glide with him!

[KSagal]

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=5003&department=647&Division=6#

They are the correct size and very cheap...same tread pattern as Metts and Ketts


They look identical, and some people have had some success, but the mold is different, and they are slightly larger... I have several sets that are a tad too large.

They are available if someone wants them, and wants to shave them...

[Madsegs]

I have found a great very soft (softest tested), great all round tread tyre for all models of segways.
IRC SN23 Urban Snow Master 80x80-14

Great even but deap (7mm) tread that seems to work great. Ultra comfy (no rumble as with the MX tyres). If you dont need beach sand or heavy mud condition tyres then these are the ones. They will go there but not as good as the trial tyres -Mett´s + Kett´s.

As posted before (my calculations) are correct and there ar many 80x80-14 tyres on the market so take your pick. I have tested 2 sets of 80x80 and they are wide (like a segway) deep tread but do not get anywhere near the fenders (just like the segway originals). Squarer than the round segway tyre giving better traction and loads of contact surface as you can see from a run around in a dusty area (nearly all the tread touched the ground)
458
I have tested them but not a lot as they only arrived today. I will have them on a tour in 45 minutes with me and i will keep you all posted in a few days.
This is the end as i now have 14 sets of tyres and they just keep getting better. I am going to stop whilst i am ahead and. I think even if i accepted donations to carry on i may loose my bed :(

For i170/167/i2 rims just buy standard michelin tubes with the rubber valve and push it through with out mods.
For i180 better buying the steel valve type and a few washers.
I will post some pics later or tomm. as i have a tour now.

Lets see what you guys can find now that you have a common size to run with.

[fleming500]

I have looked "high and low" on a lot of appropriate web sites but cannot find the IRC tires Antony is suggesting, here in the US. HELP! Anyone have some actual web sites. Thanks, Greg

[guyler]

Try http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~kanday/snow/tire.html.

[KSagal]

Try http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~kanday/snow/tire.html.


I understood the date!

[Madsegs]

http://21st-century-tires.com/wanda/p217.html USA website interesting!!

Rest of the world this is where i got my tyres
https://ssl.delti.com/english/reifen.html

The German website is the cheapest as they all originate there. Can anyone supply from there to our friends in the USA? Germans? anyone...
I can send some but for me they are 50euros each, only 35 for germany incl delivery there.

[cmonkey]

I wanted to stay with the Michelin Brand, and I really wanted to try these:

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004120600&codePage=2092004120600_13092004114546&lang=EN

and for playing polo, I wanted these:

http://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=2092004120618&codePage=2092004120618_13092004130643&lang=EN

The M29 comes in an 80/80-14, and the M45 comes in a 90/80-14 which I think will work better for the 167-170 models. it may be too tall for a 180 fender, but since I have a 170.....:D

If someone over there wants to try them and they fit, I'd like to talk to you to see about getting a set into the USA.
I've already tried a few times, but because they are not approved over here, they can only get over here by private means.

[joe]

https://ssl.delti.com/english/reifen.html

The German website is the cheapest as they all originate there. Can anyone supply from there to our friends in the USA? Germans? anyone...
I can send some but for me they are 50euros each, only 35 for germany incl delivery there.

35.50 Euro ($48) for the Bridgestone TW 5, right. But they don't have the IRC SN23. I'll look for a source for this tire.

--
Johannes

[Mr_Laurenzano]

Gladiators, The crème-de-la-crux of 10.0. 10mm of Bruno weasels eating 10 year old asphalt. It’s a griper. Red Meat :)
Shipping and handle included.

Z~ ‘don’t bunk out the mother ships HT repair. They took "ol’booboo" and gave it a first glide ride.’ : But seriously visit your local dealer with in your zip code and the ooooooo[tuning]~ (Give me a key of ‘C’: :)
….Wheels on the Seg, go round and round, round and round ~~ Round and Round.
Glide any way you want it all comes full circle.
Nice Tire's :)
Make Every Day Fun.

CRASH

[BillPaxton]

Antony - I have the original i167 wheels, with the 'spokes'...the holes go all the way thru instead of the plastic backing (see pic). I got the trials from Domi but I am afraid I will booger up the wheels trying to remove the michelins. I have the new ones stretching out gently with inner tubes but I want to preserve the originals if I can but can't get the d***ed things off the rims and am afraid to pry too hard for fear of cracking. How did you get the boogers off?
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

[Zorba9]

Yo Crash - 3 brand new pair of Gladiators left. As the original Beta testor of the Gladiators I'm reserving a pair for you. No one will come near you at the local polo matches! Bruno Wessel once flew in and helped me perfect the studding process in my shop (my stud guns were all his equipment). He helped Michelin & LLC engineers in designing the first ETT's with proper stud hole depths. He was quite dissapointed when LLC dumped their stud plans over liability issues. Mr. Leisure (the red key) and I once posted pics of us in the Mojave Desert - Gladiators literally kicking up rooster tails of sand!

Bill Paxton - The tires MUST be removed from the inside(seg-side) edge of the the wheels, the plastic is thicker on the inner rim. Your local motorcycle shop can do it/or there is a good thread here in the archives here from GlennO about doing it yourself - not hard to do actually. I like your v-1 vegamatics!

Madsegs - great job on all your research, you get a rep point from me!;)

KOG

[Speedy67]

Located near Munich in Germany I ordered the IRC yesterday after reading very positive comments about it in several Motocycle Magazines. Ordered here:

http://www.motorradreifen-online-motorradreifen.de/xt/Rollerreifen/Roller-Winterreifen/14-Zoll:::471_1369_1452.html

Though they said it will last one week, today I received the message that they are on the way. Costs were 35 Euro each with zero delivery costs.

Looking forward to more grip - Thanks again, Madseg!

Speedy

[TX2Wheels]

I personally wnat to thank you for the research. This answers most of my questions about tires. Any recommedation on smooth tread tires similar to the originals?

Best Regards,

Jay Guillot
Cajun 2 Wheels, Inc.

[BillPaxton]

I got my Michelins off and my new IRC Trials on extremely easy (Thanks Dan) but they came wrapped with the beads touching, making them very tall and narrow. I stretched them out overnight with innertubes and left them on the warm driveway today to heat and soften, but I just can't get the outer edge to push over to the rim so I can get air in it... Does anyone have a sage bit of advise for this? I've also tried sitting on the flat tire andtrying to coax the bead over with a hook but to no avail - the other bead just follows behind. I'm just about ready to bake them in the oven for awhile to loosen them up.

[Madsegs]

I got my Michelins off and my new IRC Trials on extremely easy (Thanks Dan) but they came wrapped with the beads touching, making them very tall and narrow. I stretched them out overnight with innertubes and left them on the warm driveway today to heat and soften, but I just can't get the outer edge to push over to the rim so I can get air in it... Does anyone have a sage bit of advise for this? I've also tried sitting on the flat tire andtrying to coax the bead over with a hook but to no avail - the other bead just follows behind. I'm just about ready to bake them in the oven for awhile to loosen them up.
Fit the tyre with a tube inside. Standard michelin tube will just push through and work (rubber valve stem.) Not the HD michelin.

[Madsegs]

I personally wnat to thank you for the research. This answers most of my questions about tires. Any recommedation on smooth tread tires similar to the originals?

Best Regards,

Jay Guillot
Cajun 2 Wheels, Inc.

Sava MC 26 80/80 -14 TT/TL 53L
but if you need originals i have quite a few used just for postage.
On the same website i supplied earlier in this discussion.

[cmonkey]

I got my Michelins off and my new IRC Trials on extremely easy (Thanks Dan) but they came wrapped with the beads touching, making them very tall and narrow. I stretched them out overnight with innertubes and left them on the warm driveway today to heat and soften, but I just can't get the outer edge to push over to the rim so I can get air in it... Does anyone have a sage bit of advise for this? I've also tried sitting on the flat tire andtrying to coax the bead over with a hook but to no avail - the other bead just follows behind. I'm just about ready to bake them in the oven for awhile to loosen them up.

Here's the trick (short of actually using tubes IN the tire)....
Use a racheting cinch strap around the tire. As you tighten the strap you can lightly bounce the tire to spread the tension around the tire. As you cinch down, the sidewalls and beads will bow out, and you should then be able to get the tirte to seal. You need a high pressure line, (between 85-135psi) to get enough air in the tire fast enough for the bead to catch.

I use air from my scuba tank which is running about 100psi.

Also, you'll want to get the bead over one shoulder (the wider side of the tire well) of the rim before using air to tray and seat the other side. If I remember correctly the wider shoulder is the the backside of the wheel.

good luck!

[BillPaxton]

Here's the trick (short of actually using tubes IN the tire)....
Use a racheting cinch strap around the tire. As you tighten the strap you can lightly bounce the tire to spread the tension around the tire. As you cinch down, the sidewalls and beads will bow out, and you should then be able to get the tirte to seal. You need a high pressure line, (between 85-135psi) to get enough air in the tire fast enough for the bead to catch.

I use air from my scuba tank which is running about 100psi.

Also, you'll want to get the bead over one shoulder (the wider side of the tire well) of the rim before using air to tray and seat the other side. If I remember correctly the wider shoulder is the the backside of the wheel.

good luck!its funny writing this now, especially since the pain has subsided... I had the brilliant idea a few hours ago to snap my two dogs' leashes together and form a tether which I would sinch up like a tournaquet; The first tire went easily and is now mounted and ready (and a perfect fit Antony, thanks once more). The second was a perfect pain in the arse. I started off the same and after only about five turns of the wrench I noticed the leash coming out of the tread, even as the tire was flattening - tried to coax it back to the tread without loosening via a screwdriver, and it worked, but in doing so I lost my grip on the wrench [its 85 degrees F in South FL tonight so I'd worked up a slippery sweat] and it began to unwind like a dervish onto my insuspecting and unprotected funnybone. This, in turn set my dog who was sitting in my lap into a frenzy, and my wedding tackle is still trying to find its proper place from where the dancing dog moved it.

All-in-all a great idea, but for $5 I will be at the bike shop tomorrow setting the tire via machine, smiling and with my wife happier with my choice. Oh, and where did you find a LP nozzle for your tanks? That would be a great gadget to have in the trunk with my dive gear!

BTW - Antony really went above and beyond with this post, please everyone who has benefitted by it, let him know or give reps...or better yet go on his tour - its far and away the best Allie & I have ever been on (pics in archive!)

[cmonkey]

The low pressure line for the BC will run between 85-135 PSI depending on the reg. You local dive shop will have a tire inflator that has an adaptor to fit.
http://www.joediveramerica.com/page/JDA/PROD/aeapg/N6

PS I did something similar with nylon rope and a 24 inch crowbar, only I broke the rope.

[KSagal]

So how does this diamond tread IRC compare with the Michelin ETTs from Gen 1? I got the impression that they would be similar, but the IRCs are a bit cheaper, and available.

[Madsegs]

So how does this diamond tread IRC compare with the Michelin ETTs from Gen 1? I got the impression that they would be similar, but the IRCs are a bit cheaper, and available.

MUCH deeper tread. 7mm Note: As i have not got a set i will not be able to compare them in comfort and performance. Saving come when you do not have to buy a complete wheel and the ETT is not in production anymore.

[Tarkus]

I have found a great very soft (softest tested), great all round tread tyre for all models of segways.
IRC SN23 Urban Snow Master 80x80-14

Great even but deap (7mm) tread that seems to work great. Ultra comfy (no rumble as with the MX tyres). If you dont need beach sand or heavy mud condition tyres then these are the ones. They will go there but not as good as the trial tyres -Mett´s + Kett´s.

As posted before (my calculations) are correct and there ar many 80x80-14 tyres on the market so take your pick. I have tested 2 sets of 80x80 and they are wide (like a segway) deep tread but do not get anywhere near the fenders (just like the segway originals). Squarer than the round segway tyre giving better traction and loads of contact surface as you can see from a run around in a dusty area (nearly all the tread touched the ground)
458
I have tested them but not a lot as they only arrived today. I will have them on a tour in 45 minutes with me and i will keep you all posted in a few days.
This is the end as i now have 14 sets of tyres and they just keep getting better. I am going to stop whilst i am ahead and. I think even if i accepted donations to carry on i may loose my bed :(

For i170/167/i2 rims just buy standard michelin tubes with the rubber valve and push it through with out mods.
For i180 better buying the steel valve type and a few washers.
I will post some pics later or tomm. as i have a tour now.

Lets see what you guys can find now that you have a common size to run with.


I find these tires very interesting.

Where would a common drone as myself find these tires & tubes here in the U.S. ?

Be Big,
Alan

[BillPaxton]

Antony these tires are the best - I figured out how to mount them without tubes (thanks to Dave's great tip of getting a LP inflator for my scuba tank - thanks cmonkey!). There is at least 4mm of clearance to the fender so no planing was needed at all and there is no rub at all even in a hard turn. This is one of the best threads in a long time, I'll post some pics as soon as I can.

[Tarkus]

Antony these tires are the best - I figured out how to mount them without tubes (thanks to Dave's great tip of getting a LP inflator for my scuba tank - thanks cmonkey!). There is at least 4mm of clearance to the fender so no planing was needed at all and there is no rub at all even in a hard turn. This is one of the best threads in a long time, I'll post some pics as soon as I can.


Bill,

Where did you get the IRC tires?
I must have a pair !

Be Big,
Alan

[BillPaxton]

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/icarus256/IMG00017.jpgBill,

Where did you get the IRC tires?
I must have a pair !

Be Big,
Alan
Hi Alan, I got mine from www.domiracer.com (http://www.domiracer.com) but they only have one tyre left.. you are looking for IRC Trial 2.75x1.4 and I think you can get them from any Tire Kingdom for around USD$34 + shipping or if you can't find them email me and I can get them and send them to you at cost +shipping. This tyre is spectacular tho, and I think, with all due deference to Karl, the era of METTs has been ushered in. Antony has found our next great tyre pics attached
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/icarus256/IMG00019.jpg

[Zorba9]

..... looking tires Bill and a great fit. It looks like you've been in the sand with them already. Its nice to have some traction isn't it? They are knobbies so the must rumble a little bit on pavement. My Michelin Star-X minis have a few less knobs on themand are a bit "deeper", so they do rumble. A word of caution tho, In loose sand you can still wipeout if you make the wheels spin by pushing their limits too far.

I tried to give Antony a rep point earlier this week and the function seems to be turned off??

KOG

[gbrandwood]

I tried to give Antony a rep point earlier this week and the function seems to be turned off??That's not a problem. For anyone struggling to give Antony positive rep points, give them to me and I'll be sure to look after them for him. ;)

Seriously, you've probably already given him some and you may need to spread it around before you can give him any more.

[BillPaxton]

..... looking tires Bill and a great fit. It looks like you've been in the sand with them already. Its nice to have some traction isn't it? They are knobbies so the must rumble a little bit on pavement. My Michelin Star-X minis have a few less knobs on themand are a bit "deeper", so they do rumble. A word of caution tho, In loose sand you can still wipeout if you make the wheels spin by pushing their limits too far.

I tried to give Antony a rep point earlier this week and the function seems to be turned off??

KOGThis tyre was a great find - no rumble at all, no noise, and the traction is great. I spent a good 30 minutes today going up and down the slopes of our soon-to-be polo field this afternoon, and the grass was wet from last night's rain but no tire spins, no traction control over-reacting, nothing. I am extremely pleased. Oh and I went through our soft sugarloaf sand earlier (good eye noticing that BTW) and they were fine, although I still don't recommend going through sand if you can help it

[joe]

You guys are now talking about three different "IRC" tires... Madsegs found the "IRC SN23 Urban Snow Master" whereas KSagal uses "IRC Motocross iX Kids" and BillPaxton has "IRC Trial" on the rims...

I'll opt for the SN23... if they're not available in the US, send me a PM.

--
Johannes

[BillPaxton]

You guys are now talking about three different "IRC" tires... Madsegs found the "IRC SN23 Urban Snow Master" whereas KSagal uses "IRC Motocross iX Kids" and BillPaxton has "IRC Trial" on the rims...

I'll opt for the SN23... if they're not available in the US, send me a PM.

--
JohannesJohannes, bear in mind a few things: I live in South Florida. No snow, my worst threat is sand drifts over the sidewalks. Karl lives in Maine - snow, cold, etc. Antony lives in Madrid and has the full spectrum of seasons but not as severe as a Maine winter.Tell us what your environment is like and maybe we can make a suggestion as to what your "best fit" would be.

[joe]

I know, I know. Good if you know the differences also. You replied to Antonys posting about his SN23 with "these tires are the best" but you meant your IRC Trials. Then Tarkus was asking about where to get "the IRC tires" etc. ...

I just wanted to point out the different IRC types. I think my best choice are the SN23 because they are soft and small enough for all fenders. We may have snow in winter in Munich but that's not the point. I want better grip on wet grass, on wet cobblestones etc. - just for my peace of mind...

--
Johannes

[KSagal]

So does anyone really know what composits that IRC uses in their tires? Are the urban snows really a different rubber than that company's trials?

I have not yet found IRC trials. I do really like the trials tread pattern, however. If I could find a trials style tire that will fit the i2, I would use it...

[BillPaxton]

So does anyone really know what composits that IRC uses in their tires? Are the urban snows really a different rubber than that company's trials?

I have not yet found IRC trials. I do really like the trials tread pattern, however. If I could find a trials style tire that will fit the i2, I would use it...
Domiracer.com still has them in stock for 16.50 each - go to the website and search for 39-00326

Composition:
http://www.irctire.com/images/new.gifhttp://www.irctire.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.irctire.com/images/t_rbc.gifRICE BRAN CERAMIC
Under exclusive license by NMB Minebea, IRC Tire has developed a bicycle rubber compound that incorporates the newly founded field of Rice Bran Ceramic. Previously discarded in the production of food, the outer husk, or bran of an individual rice kernel is now ground, mixed with a phenolic or epoxy thermosetting resins, then kneaded into IRC bicycle rubber compounds.

[wwhopper]

[QUOTE=Madsegs;141977]Many tyre replacements are avaliable and not too hard to fit.

Bridgestone M39F 60/100-14 (soft terrain tyre)
Other possibles are M40 and M29

Bridgestone TW5 2.75-14 (only fits i167/i170 fenders)

Bridgestone M401 60/100 R14 30M (replaces M57)

Bridgestone 403 60/100-14 (front)

He says these are all european tires, and not easy to get here in the states, though he is trying to me some, as he is LOVING the Segway I had him on all weekend.

I will keep you posted.

He wants to run some segs at the demo trailers, but can only do so if he can put Bridgestone tires on them.... Win-Win for everyone!

[cmonkey]

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=14069&department=647&division=6

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/item.aspx?style=4789&department=647&division=6

[Madsegs]

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Innova%20MC/innova_3202_3203.htm

These will give a slight massage on pavements but should be great offroad.

[Madsegs]

http://www.americanmototire.com/ (http://www.americanmototire.com/)

under dirt tyres - IRC i found these...

IRC GS-45F 2.50-14 FRONT

[Madsegs]

http://www.bikebandit.com/nav/tires?a=4+10+302

[Madsegs]

They are alternatives with better tread than standard than segway originals. Used for electric/moped and scooters. but not outstanding like the SN23 and TW5´s
466

[BillPaxton]

If you use this one, I HIGHLY recommend inner tubes. Without tubes they will seat bead to rim easy enough, but the night before last I had a "low pressure blowout" - I was a tad under-inflated because through the day I was playing solo-polo and the bumps in the field were getting to my back, and I forgot to re-inflate...coming home from the pub the tire just gave way. I'd hate to have someone gliding on the tyre I doted over and get injured, spend the extra $22 and get a set of tubes to be safe.

be safe please folks -
+B

[polo_pro]

If you use this one, I HIGHLY recommend inner tubes. Without tubes they will seat bead to rim easy enough, but the night before last I had a "low pressure blowout" - I was a tad under-inflated because through the day I was playing solo-polo and the bumps in the field were getting to my back, and I forgot to re-inflate...coming home from the pub the tire just gave way. I'd hate to have someone gliding on the tyre I doted over and get injured, spend the extra $22 and get a set of tubes to be safe.

be safe please folks -
+B

Excellent...glad to hear you're practicing at polo! I've lost count of the number of hours I've torn up and down nearby soccer fields (in pursuit of a ball...occasionally yelling loudly) probably scaring the locals. 8^) 8^) 8^) Great way to blow off steam by the way if you had a long day!

I've had some trouble with my polo tires blowing out too. Same situation of underinflation. At this point, I won't go on the polo field without 20 psi in each tire. But you sure do notice the difference when you're using Cheshin's! No slippage whatsoever...you have to try it to realize just how much you're slipping with normal tires.

ps - All my blowouts happened at low speed in a hard turn. I think the sidewall is flexing a bit causing the bead to be lost. For some reason, given these conditions I didn't feel there was added risk. Now if I was moving at 12.5 MPH straight and lost a bead, I do agree that would be "surprising". But the sidewall isn't flexing much in that situation (assuming you have your tires inflated enough).

[BillPaxton]

Its a VERY useful thread, and with the removal / install instructions posted as a reply in there too, its pretty great info

[ian purvis]

IRC SN23 and Bridgestone TW5 not available in Australia or New Zealand. Would anyone be prepared to ship 2 sets of either to New Zealand?

cheers :(

[ian purvis]

By the way has anyone experienced a dramatic loss of battery range when using 60/100-14 tyres. I found last week (after not making it all the way home from work 2 nights in a row) that I was struggling to get 20km from a set of lions. As soon as I put my originals back on seg was fine and normal range.

[ryan_walters]

The more aggressive the tread, the higher the rolling resistance. Higher rolling resistance means more power needed.

If the tread is aggressive enough that you get a 'bumpy' ride on pavement, then it's like your climbing and descending little 'hills' with every 'knob' on the tire. Changing to a less aggressive tire should increase your range.

[Madsegs]

By the way has anyone experienced a dramatic loss of battery range when using 60/100-14 tyres. I found last week (after not making it all the way home from work 2 nights in a row) that I was struggling to get 20km from a set of lions. As soon as I put my originals back on seg was fine and normal range.
No difference at all in the range with the TW5 or SN23 and chenshins.
What tyre did you use?

[SLong]

I put 2.75-14 Cheng-Shins on my i2 about a month ago and haven't seen a drop in power or battery life.

[Madsegs]

I put 2.75-14 Cheng-Shins on my i2 about a month ago and haven't seen a drop in power or battery life.
I was unaware that the 2.75-14 fitted the i2?
Did you have to shave a lot off?

[SLong]

I removed the fenders and put on a cargo frame. This saves my legs somewhat, but I am fabricating a set of fenders to fit. Playing polo, sometimes I stop too fast and the Segway gets pushed out and I find myself on my back. This cures what ailed my agressivness.

[Tarkus]

I removed the fenders and put on a cargo frame. This saves my legs somewhat, but I am fabricating a set of fenders to fit. Playing polo, sometimes I stop too fast and the Segway gets pushed out and I find myself on my back. This cures what ailed my agressivness.

Once the fenders are off sizing becomes so much easyer.

The 167 I use to fly with, FrankenSegway, has had it's fenders busted so many times that I decided to just leave them off. Now it just has XT lifting handles on it.

I have a pair of 3.00 x 14" that I'll pop on for a beach ride. Without the fenders you could "jack it up" as high as you can find tire to do it with.

I also notice about a 1.75 mph increase in top speed with the 3.00. Thats on a GPS so there's some margin for error there. I did test it by doing time runs on the same 167, same day with both the 3.00 and the stock Michelin's.

All that being said. For anyone who uses their Segway indoors alot you can't beat the stock tires for everyday use. They are a nice "Balance" for road and indoors.

Now the beach, mud wet grass is another story.

Be Big,
Alan

[ian purvis]

Antony the tyres were 60/100 so the profile was only 60mm high before having to stretch them to fit the rim. As the std tyres are 65mm without stretching there is quite a reduction in the diameter of the 60/100's.

I think Ryan may be right re the aggressiveness of the tread though. All week I've consistently used 2 full bars of charge more than the same journey on std tyres. Last night I rode home in the rain and could feel a substantial increase in performance. The seg felt marginally faster and less laboured than it had been in the dry, almost as if the aggressive tread pattern couldn't 'grab' the road like it could in the dry. Same journey yet used 1½ bars less charge than in dry conditions, almost as good as the std tyres.

I switched back to std tyres when I got home. This morning the journey was back to normal, 2 bars less than the 60/100's.

Joe's sending me 2 sets of SN23's tomorrow so hopefully I'll get the best of both grip and range with them.

[Madsegs]

Ian im sure you will love them.
I have a set on a tour machine and in wet conditions i had a lady (not young) hit a curb +-8cm high. To her amazement and with a bit of a segway dance she went straight up it turned and said how do i get down.....
I have had customers (after telling everyone WE DO NOT CLIMB STAIRS/bumps) spin out on far less with regular tyres. If you are using Li-ion 1.5 bar pressure. NiMh a bit less for more comfort.
Pump them up to 2 bar (+-30PSi) and then deflate and set the required pressure to seat the tyres correctly.

Note: the curb was climbed with NiMh as Li-ion may well have touched.

[dynk]

I liked the KETTS Karl uses on his E series, but it will not fit on the i2.

[Madsegs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW6-ETJO2N0

On this video we used IRC sn23 tyres on the up side and the TW-5 on the down side but both climbed and decended the ramps. I would not be too confident doing this on standard tyres.

On youtube you can also search madrid segway steep or madsegs

[ian purvis]

I got back to Christchurch and fitted them on Monday night. I've done about 100km on them so far and love them. It's been around 2deg C and raining all week so haven't had any ice yet but I'm very impressed.

A big thanks to Antony for a great find, and to Joe especially for shipping them to NZ for me. Much appreciated guys.

regards
Ian

[ryan_walters]

A big thanks to Antony for a great find, and to Joe especially for shipping them to NZ for me. Much appreciated guys.


To be fair, hobbes did mention these tires last year. Of course with them not being available in North America, that was the end of it.

But since Antony isn't in North America, a big thanks to him for checking to see they fit stock fenders. And Joe for shipping elsewhere.

I would not be too confident doing this on standard tyres.


I've gone right to the limits of the segways power as far as hill climbing with no problems on stock tires. Assuming dry clean pavement of course. Under less than ideal conditions is where there will be a difference. Also i2 stock tires are far better than gen1 stock tires. Very much on par with the original gen1 ett.

[KSagal]

I have tried a dozen sets of tires on my segs. I really like the Ketts (Chen Shin Trials) best...

I have been running them on my e-167 for a couple years now.

I have modifed the fenders, and now have them on my i2 as well. I still have some rubbing issues, and when I am completely satisfied with my fenders, I will publish something...

I had run a more aggressive smaller tire on the i2 for a couple hundred miles, and have gone to the extra work to get the chen shins on because I believe the glide to be superiour, in smoothness and grip...

[hellphish]

[URL]... I would not be too confident doing this on standard tyres...


I'm curious about this. I would think that on dry pavement the tire with the most rubber on the road would have the most traction, and surely that would be the stock tire over the knobbies. Am I missing something?

[Tarkus]

I'm curious about this. I would think that on dry pavement the tire with the most rubber on the road would have the most traction, and surely that would be the stock tire over the knobbies. Am I missing something?

I have gone up/down 45 degree ramps at my marina on stock tires. They work very well, never a fall. These are "non skid" ramps.

That being said, I use Kings 962's now. They work in all conditions.

Be Big,
Alan

[Madsegs]

I'm curious about this. I would think that on dry pavement the tire with the most rubber on the road would have the most traction, and surely that would be the stock tire over the knobbies. Am I missing something?

This is true but the different compound plays a big part. The SN23 are designed for snow and are very soft leading to more grip.

I noticed that the XT tryes are also a soft compound compared to the segway michelin.

[hellphish]

I believe that technically speaking, the stock michellens aren't even rubber.

[stedler]

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Innova%20MC/innova_3202_3203.htm

These will give a slight massage on pavements but should be great offroad.

Now those look awesome, these would be great if they will fit an i180 without mods.... does anyone know? Thanks for posting these on here, I would have never thought to look for anything like these. wonder how they would do in sand?

[Madsegs]

Now those look awesome, these would be great if they will fit an i180 without mods.... does anyone know? Thanks for posting these on here, I would have never thought to look for anything like these. wonder how they would do in sand?

Yes the 60/100-14 will fit without mods but i am not sure if the 90/100-14 will. I used the black MX minis on an i180. Great offroad and in sand but a bit bumppy on roads and concrete... does have a bit of a humm at speeds on a hard surface too, but then you are making a hummer with these....

[dynk]

I also liked the ride on your E-167 but not so much the i2. Let me know how you make out with the fenders, I might get some for my i2 if I can modilfy mime also.

[KSagal]

I also liked the ride on your E-167 but not so much the i2. Let me know how you make out with the fenders, I might get some for my i2 if I can modilfy mime also.


I guess you are speaking to me...

I have now modifed the fenders, and am very happy with the results...

You should come by some day, or I will see you and we can swap off back and forth. It is easier to compare the ride on two i2s with different tires than it is to compare the tires of an i2 with the tires on an e-167, because there is so much more than the tires to consider while riding...

[SEGsby]

It would be most useful to publish a Table with the Make, Sizes, & "Quality" of ride and traction for each design, and whether each tire requires mods to fenders or not (Gen 1, Gen 2 , Urban and OffRoad for each).

Knowledge stored in a single mind does very little good for the rest of us.

SEGsby

[SF Segway Tours]

This thread is great - and the list of tires and specs are impressive.

I have tried searching for a reliable supplier(s) in the US. Seems all the good stuff is over there !

What I am searching for is a slightly more aggressive tread than the stock tire that will fit under the stock fenders on the Gen 1 Units..

We have run through 100+ tires on our guided tours..and have a pile of empty rims ready for new rubber.

Any suggestions and better yet - a URL link to a supplier would be appreciated.

Tireless in San Francisco..

[jgbackes]

http://www.americanmototire.com

IRC GS-45F 2.50-14 FRONT
IRC INNER TUBE 2.25/250-14 TR4

A little knobby, but I like them. They require inner tubes. You won't be able to use them inside, they will mark up the floor.

No mods required to use them on my i180.

[SF Segway Tours]

in case anyone else wants a look at this specific tire.

http://www.americanmototire.com/

On LH Navigation
Choose Dirt Tires
Then IRC
Then Minicross Intermediate
The IRC GS-45F 2.50-14 FRONT is 1st on the list.

Thanks

[Madsegs]

in case anyone else wants a look at this specific tire.

http://www.americanmototire.com/

On LH Navigation
Choose Dirt Tires
Then IRC
Then Minicross Intermediate
The IRC GS-45F 2.50-14 FRONT is 1st on the list.

Thanks
These are a bit too agressive for common tour usage , unless you are not in the city.
Tour alternative: same site under moped/scooter - chenshin C109
If you are using 167/170 fenders try the chenshin 2.75 C109 under moped on the same site. 2.25-14 if you have i180 fenders. I have not tried them but the sizes will fit and they are very cheap.

[SF Segway Tours]

Ordered both the more aggressive

IRC GS-45F 2.50-14 FRONT

and

CHENG SHIN 2.25-14 2-PLY MOPED

will report back results after we put them out on our tours for a few weeks.

Thanks for the assist with the 2nd tire spec..

Brian

[SF Segway Tours]

We tried out the CHENG SHIN 2.25-14 2-PLY MOPED ties on a unit in our fleet today.

These tires are a slightly smaller diameter - a breeze to put on the rims including the tubes..

The Segway started to malfuction intermitenly - almost like a skip / catch as the gyros were trying to adjust to the new tires

switched back to the stock tires and no problems


Has anyone else experienced this issue ?

[SEGsby]

Herbie developed a flat earlier this week from some glass on the boardwalk I hit coming home late at night.

I've got a replacement pair of stock Segway tires on order with my local Dealer, but they won't appear until the week of 8/6. I wasn't planning on buying replacements until about September, as the soft stock tires have already worn their tread off in the center after about 1500 miles. So, I was kind of already mentally prepared for swapping them out soonish, anyways...

Inc. should take the phrase "Long Range" off the side of these new tires. Seriously. The inside of the tire is visibly micro-cracked from wear, and there appear to be a couple visible blisters under the sidewall's skin on the outside of the tire that got punctured.

But it seems fate wanted me to replace them even earlier... Oh well.

I was hoping to find a pair of IRC SN23's, but that seems pretty unlikely, after doing multiple Google searches for any US dealers. Those tires fit the i2 without modification (I don't have the resources for doing that) and have great traction, but they seem as rare as frog's hair...

Does anyone know where I can get these seemingly mythical tires in the US? I would love to have an extra set of offoadish tires, now that I'll soon have a pair of extra rims.

Thanks,
SEGsby

[ryan_walters]

I wasn't planning on buying replacements until about September, as the soft stock tires have already worn their tread off in the center after about 1500 miles.

Inc. should take the phrase "Long Range" off the side of these new tires. Seriously. The inside of the tire is visibly micro-cracked from wear, and there appear to be a couple visible blisters under the sidewall's skin on the outside of the tire that got punctured.


I think you may have had abnormal tires. I had about 1500km on my first pair of i2 tires. Upon getting new tires, the only difference between the two pairs were the tire 'whiskers' on the new ones. The tread 'wear' (or lack thereof) was identical. Based on my experience, I think my first pair of tires will probably do 10,000km pretty easy before wear could be even considered. I also don't remember seeing any difference on the inside at all when taking them off the rims.



I was hoping to find a pair of IRC SN23's, but that seems pretty unlikely, after doing multiple Google searches for any US dealers. Those tires fit the i2 without modification (I don't have the resources for doing that) and have great traction, but they seem as rare as frog's hair...

Does anyone know where I can get these seemingly mythical tires in the US? I would love to have an extra set of offoadish tires, now that I'll soon have a pair of extra rims.

They are not available in the US / Canada. Only way to get them is get them shipped in from Europe.

[Sharkie]

The cracks in the inside are a result of running the tires with the pressure too low. I am currently using the tires Ryan took off his i2 with 1500 km on them, and have put an additional couple hundred km on them. They have no cracks, and are doing just fine. They have never been run low on pressure though, I guess there's a price to pay for not being diligent with looking after things!

Jim

[jgbackes]

I recently got a set of tires that were part of the i180 golf kit... Just wanted to post my impressions.

1) They appear to be the exact same tires as used on the i2
2) They are labeled "Segway" on the sidewall
3) They are tube tires on a 180 rim
4) The reflective "white wall" is mounted on the inside of the tire
5) The "i180 spokes" have small square reflectors. I guess because of #4

I will be putting them on Ol' Red as soon as I can find my 16mm deep well. Which one of you borrowed that ;)

[SEGsby]

The tires were run at 18 psi.

SEGsby


The cracks in the inside are a result of running the tires with the pressure too low. I am currently using the tires Ryan took off his i2 with 1500 km on them, and have put an additional couple hundred km on them. They have no cracks, and are doing just fine. They have never been run low on pressure though, I guess there's a price to pay for not being diligent with looking after things!

Jim

[ryan_walters]

The tires were run at 18 psi.

SEGsby

I thought you said your tires were down to 7psi before you pumped them back up to 12psi?

Got up and decided to add a bit more air to the tires (guage says 12 lbs, started with about 7?), and went to test how it changed the ride characteristics. Much stiffer... But that's good for range.



It appears that about 7 lbs of pressure was in the tires at the time that I first put air into them myself.

The unit was dealer built and I've never messed with the wheels since purchase, which was Sept 30th.

They have may have decreased pressure on their own since then, so I dunno.

The ride is quite stiff now. I'd say that they've never been run at this pressure before-- but I'm also not sure my digital pressure gauge is really that accurate at these low levels, either...


So if you bought the machine in Sep with unknown pressure in the tires, and 3 months later the tires are at 7psi, I think they were fairly low to begin with. Both times I've checked pressure in new tires, they were around 11-13psi. I think what sharkie means is that running tires at 7-12 psi for long periods of time can cause the cracks on the inside.

[SEGsby]

Wouldn't the micro-cracks be on both sides of the tire, instead of just the inside, where I didn't apply any envoromental protectant to the rubber?

The treated sides of the tires that face out, have aged much better, and do not show any cracking; just sidewall blisters. So I believe there is also environmental aspect to the tire aging, besides mere useage.

Since I began inflating them myself, (and after that post) the tires have always been around 18 psi. 12 did not appear sufficient.

SEGsby


I thought you said your tires were down to 7psi before you pumped them back up to 12psi?

...

So if you bought the machine in Sep with unknown pressure in the tires, and 3 months later the tires are at 7psi, I think they were fairly low to begin with. Both times I've checked pressure in new tires, they were around 11-13psi. I think what sharkie means is that running tires at 7-12 psi for long periods of time can cause the cracks on the inside.

Sharie likes to jump to conclusions, especially if it's someone he dislikes. :)

SEGsby

[Madsegs]

We tried out the CHENG SHIN 2.25-14 2-PLY MOPED ties on a unit in our fleet today.

These tires are a slightly smaller diameter - a breeze to put on the rims including the tubes..

The Segway started to malfuction intermitenly - almost like a skip / catch as the gyros were trying to adjust to the new tires

switched back to the stock tires and no problems


Has anyone else experienced this issue ?

this is not the tyre....i have tried 14 tyre types and never had this.
Even swopped an XT and p133 wheels and they both function normally (well almost -the p133 does not like the big wheels)
A very old pic +video online showed a segway with 27" bicycle wheels.

this cannot be the tyres. The segway does not know what tyres you are using.

[Sharkie]

I didn't jump to any conclusions, you're the one that stated you were running them around 7psi! Underinflation is known to be a cause of cracking on the insides of tires. It doesn't take thousands of miles either, it can happen very quickly.

If you expect me to jump to conclusions, I'll jump to the conclusion that you used Armor All on your tires as your "environmental" protection. I know quite a few people that will say this is about the worst thing you can do for vinyl and vinyl type compounds. Anything along those lines could easily have done more harm than good to your tires. They aren't rubber, so why do people use products made for rubber on them? How's that for jumping to conclusions????

Of course, admitting that underinflation could be at least part of the problem with your tires would go against your frequent tirades about how Segway doesn't care about the customer, and is just out to rip the customer off.

Jim

[polo_pro]

Sharie likes to jump to conclusions, especially if it's someone he dislikes.

I may be putting words in his mouth, but Sharkie doesn't dislike you. He dislikes your tirades. If you're going to go on and on about something, make it something positive that you can do something about. Like playing polo!

8^) 8^) 8^)

[SEGsby]

Basd on Sharkie sending me an email containing a link to an offensive pic of a naked man with his head shoved in his a**, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and disagree with you on that point, Steve. :) After Pam was notified, the material was promtpy removed, and Sharkie slithered in the grass, waiting for his next opportunity to strike.

I don't know much about the man. And I don't really care, but actions like that speak volumes about what ethical orbits he travels.

Sharkie's only post to me since then, was clearly not designed to be helpful, but merely to obtain as much pleasure as he can from someone else's misfortunes. Disagree if you want, but you're not his target of contempt and loathing.

SEGsby


I may be putting words in his mouth, but Sharkie doesn't dislike you. He dislikes your tirades. If you're going to go on and on about something, make it something positive that you can do something about. Like playing polo!

8^) 8^) 8^)

[polo_pro]

Disagree if you want, but you're not his target of contempt and loathing.

Perhaps because my tirades only are about how polo matches aren't scheduled frequently enough? 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - Actually now that I'm up in NorCal and we've been having plenty of 5 weekend months, I've been getting my fill of polo. Well almost. We still get to the end of the fourth chukker, and I'm the first to suggest an extra fifth one!

[SEGsby]

Please be aware that the tools and techniques I use to maintain my machine, have evolved since purchase.

The post you're referring to was very early days in that process. At the time, I had purchased what I thought would be a very accurate way to measure the psi of the tires. I used a Digital Pressure Gauge. The problem was that to get any reading-- much air was lost in the process of obtaining the data.

Most i2 owners will agree that the access to the valve from the inside-- requires a fairly high degree of hassle. One has to either lay down the machine on it's side and rotate the tire into position to get to the valve, or lay it down, with the rear up, and do the same. The "high tech" tool I was using, couldn't seat cleanly around the lip and get me the accurate information I needed; even though it's tip was also angled so I could get it into the wheel-well to use it.

7 psi was the number that the AccuPressure Gauge gave me (the value you're quoting from an old post), but after losing a lot of pressure before doing so. I'm going to guess that the actual pressure was probably more like 10-9. But who really knows? Certainly the tools I had at the time were not a satisfactory way to do what needed to be done, and I've updated my methods since.

Currently, I'm using a foot pump that has an in-line gauge which clamps securely onto the value and prevents any significant air loss. I now feel more confident in getting acurate readings and maintaining the tires to about 18 psi. I like the improved acceleration and range and even the tighter ride characteristics it gives at that pressure. And I assume any risks with potential bouncing and reduced traction this may cause... I'm more careful when I take bumps, etc.

I hope that clarifies my earlier response. :)

I didn't jump to any conclusions, you're the one that stated you were running them around 7psi! Under inflation is known to be a cause of cracking on the insides of tires. It doesn't take thousands of miles either, it can happen very quickly.

If you expect me to jump to conclusions, I'll jump to the conclusion that you used Armor All on your tires as your "environmental" protection. I know quite a few people that will say this is about the worst thing you can do for vinyl and vinyl type compounds. Anything along those lines could easily have done more harm than good to your tires. They aren't rubber, so why do people use products made for rubber on them? How's that for jumping to conclusions????

Of course, admitting that under inflation could be at least part of the problem with your tires would go against your frequent tirades about how Segway doesn't care about the customer, and is just out to rip the customer off.

Jim

I think you're one of the most negative people I've ever met online. But if you've ever actually read anything I've posted (beyond just rejecting it out of hand), and thought with your mind before you reacted with your gut, you might find that the experiences I share here as I figure out this Segway thing, might not be so two-dimensional and shallow as you seem to want to believe.

I hope the rest of your life is more pleasant than you appear to have made it thus far.

SEGsby

[SEGsby]

I'm trying to make this new event in Segway ownership a positive one--

I'll now have a chance to get offroadish tires for things like polo or trail riding, now that I'll have an extra set of rims. I just ordered a set of ChenShins and new tubes at the local Yamaha Scooter Store, down the street. They should be here soon.

Another positive is, the new stock tires will look nicer than the one's I had, when we shoot the spec-commercial footage in the coming weeks. So far, I have a cameraman, a cute blonde haired actress, and a director wanting to help with the spot.

But due to ubiquitous beach sand, some initial low inflation, uber-soft rubber and 1200+ real world miles (when the tread was gone), the "long range" phrase on the new i2 tires does not seem very accurate from my experience. I doubt many users will ever see 3k on stock i2 tires.

What should "Long Range" mean when it's printed in bold text along the side of a product?

SEGsby


Perhaps because my tirades only are about how polo matches aren't scheduled frequently enough? 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - Actually now that I'm up in NorCal and we've been having plenty of 5 weekend months, I've been getting my fill of polo. Well almost. We still get to the end of the fourth chukker, and I'm the first to suggest an extra fifth one!

[KSagal]

We tried out the CHENG SHIN 2.25-14 2-PLY MOPED ties on a unit in our fleet today.

These tires are a slightly smaller diameter - a breeze to put on the rims including the tubes..

The Segway started to malfuction intermitenly - almost like a skip / catch as the gyros were trying to adjust to the new tires

switched back to the stock tires and no problems


Has anyone else experienced this issue ?


I really cannot say what caused your malfunction, but I have also used larger and smaller tires, and not experienced what you have. It is possible that something else was involved.

One thing that people with the 'wrong' size tires do experience is a difference in acceleration or deceleration, but not more. I really have not just tried myself, but also have spoken to many, many seggers, that have thus experimented, and none have reported this skip/catch in the gyros...

Speaking of that, I am under the impression that a gyroscope is actually a mechanical device, that spins and creates an energy field as a result. I also do not believe that any such actual device is in a segway, therefore making it difficult to skip/catch.

I believe that there is a series of chips that vibrate at a particular frequency and develop an energy field from this vibration, and that is what we typically call the gyros. The purpose is the same, and the resultant usable data is similar, but the process is different, and there is not a mechanical device at work.

I invite anyone with a better description to post in...

[SF Segway Tours]

it was more like a skip catch in the gearboxes - I'm sending the machine in for a check -

Thanks

[joe]

it was more like a skip catch in the gearboxes - I'm sending the machine in for a check

I guess the tire slipped on the rim!? Maybe your tire is slightly too large for the rim and there's not enough friction between them? You wrote it was "a breeze" to put them on - maybe it was "too easy"? Did you use a lubricant?

Put the wheels on again and mark the position of the tire vs. the rim. I did this with my SN23's and the markings are still opposite after 50+ km.

--
Johannes

[BillPaxton]

The Cheng Shin Style 23 moto 2.75x14 is a great fit and readily available at $12.99 apiece here http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemBrowse?krypto=2qtbVkvC9SCwReD3W4s%2BwB7IlBHKwY lNleZcSv8uJ6DY9M%2FPogfak0%2B4IVz2c7Xvne8zcQkrVGjl %0ABJdi66OsBtI7B0aQmPbB%2FsWO%2BD9wEOMIy0iapBxy2k3 2LDzKyqo3rIAtDUxhGWWKeFCbQSZ9cOZQ%0ATZUFPtRn
But I recommend tubes for this one definitely ($5.99 apiece on the same website)

[SF Segway Tours]

I guess the tire slipped on the rim!? Maybe your tire is slightly too large for the rim and there's not enough friction between them? You wrote it was "a breeze" to put them on - maybe it was "too easy"? Did you use a lubricant?

Put the wheels on again and mark the position of the tire vs. the rim. I did this with my SN23's and the markings are still opposite after 50+ km.

--
Johannes

Great suggestion for checking for wheel slippage - checked and that is not the issue.. tires run fine as tested on 3 other units - So off to the repair shop with one unit. Thanks for the input.

[Tarkus]

The Cheng Shin Style 23 moto 2.75x14 is a great fit and readily available at $12.99 apiece here http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemBrowse?krypto=2qtbVkvC9SCwReD3W4s%2BwB7IlBHKwY lNleZcSv8uJ6DY9M%2FPogfak0%2B4IVz2c7Xvne8zcQkrVGjl %0ABJdi66OsBtI7B0aQmPbB%2FsWO%2BD9wEOMIy0iapBxy2k3 2LDzKyqo3rIAtDUxhGWWKeFCbQSZ9cOZQ%0ATZUFPtRn
But I recommend tubes for this one definitely ($5.99 apiece on the same website)

I have a pair and love them, I run fenderless so I don't know about fit.

For anyone else who goes fender less I have a pair of these I use for mud and sand. They are BIG and give a rough ride on pavement so they are "off road" only for me. Oh, my gps shows a steady but bumpy 13.9 mph before the limiter kicks in.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ItemBrowse/c-10111/s-10101/p-100000209037/mediaCode-ZX/appId-100000209037/Pr-p_CATENTRY_ID:100000209037


Be Big,
Alan

[polo_pro]

Great suggestion for checking for wheel slippage - checked and that is not the issue.. tires run fine as tested on 3 other units - So off to the repair shop with one unit. Thanks for the input.

I thought slippage too, but if you're sure you're not seeing this, then I'm going to implicate the coupler. ETT/knobbies probably require a bit more torque due to the better gripping. I bet you had a coupler that was already worn, and this tweaked it till it broke. Do you see the symptom coming from mainly one side?

[BillPaxton]

First the tires are a perfect fit, 2mm clearance all around when overinflated by 5psi (I like them a bit over), and although they are gladiators the rubber bits don't cause anything but noise until they wear off.

The tubes are stainless steel 1.5" valves BUT they are threaded all the way to the tube and include two lag bolts for securing in place, the only issue is on my old veg-o-matic style rims I had to bore a 5mm hole just below the normal stem hole in order to insert the valve through the .75" insert hole. After that it was effortless - they go on very easily and the grip is fantastic.

Oh, and JCwhitney standard shipping only took 2 days to arrive. nice website.

[Madsegs]

Bill are they smooth and quiet? or a bit of a massage on a hard surface?

[byped]

Hows the range....

[BillPaxton]

Bill are they smooth and quiet? or a bit of a massage on a hard surface?

They sound the same as my mountain bike on pavement, so there is a slight bit of noise, but I attributed this to the whiskers smacking the fenders. I hope to get home early tonight and take the cheese grater to the whiskers, after which I will see if I can take a video with my phone and stick it up on youtube.com with a link here so people can see the fit, the modification to the wheel to accomodate the steel valve stem, and hear them.

*BTW, If you want my IRC trials and my original Michelins I will ship them to you for the cost of postage. The IRCs are perfectly new, I just like the Chengs SO much better. The Michelins are in very good shape but the reflective whitewalls are worn nearly away. I can always get you some Chengs and tubes from the jcwhitney website here, it would probably cost much less for me to send them to you at actual cost than to pay the seller's shipping cost to Madrid. Just let me know, last time I checked the tyres are €9,5 each and tubes are €4,35 each

(*this is for Antony only, he's helped me SEVERAL times, not to mention his tour was what got me into gliding in the first place!!)

[BillPaxton]

Hows the range....

Well I noticed you are in FL, so if your neighborhood is like mine, that means you have very few hills except on golf courses.

That said, my original almost 5 years old batteries on my i167 still got almost 12 miles on a charge, but always got home before shutdown so maybe there was another half mile in the old glide. With the new treads I've noticed very little change, still at just about the same distance although with the more aggressive treads I find myself coming home traversing the slopes of the golf course, so I am definately getting a bit of dyno recharge on the downhills, which are more aggressive slopes than the uphills (designed for electric golfcarts, ya know).

True test is this weekend, my wife's unmodified pink i167 (vera) and my i167 with Chengs (Beucephalus) are touring the Palm Beach bike trail, which is 100% flat and 10 miles long...we'll see who hits the halfway charge on the battery first.

...can't wait till I can afford to upgrade 4 batteries.....

[bystander]

Found a place called Parts Unlimited (http://offroad.parts-unlimited.com/). They have an on-line catalog, but don't make any retail sales. They do have an extensive dealer affiliation network, the dealer locater (http://www.parts-unlimited.com/dealers) finds 17 affiliates within 10 miles of my zip code.

They don't post prices on the internet, but the affiliates have printed catalogs with suggested retail prices in them.

I stopped by one of the affiliates a couple of miles from where I live and ordered a set of Cheng Shin C183A trail tires (http://offroad.parts-unlimited.com/46/89/4236058). The MSRP, including shipping, was $21 each. Here's the description from the webpage (small photo (http://images.parts-unlimited.com//images/catalogs/OffRoad/2007/products/display/b02108b3-1c1d-47ed-82fe-2062bf0cf315.jpg)):

Features Aggressive, open-tread blocks for soft, loamy conditions
Large paddle-scoop knobs for maximum hookup

The stock number that I ordered was C183A5, C/SH 275-14 TT 4 PLY

It took about a week for the tires to come in, just as I was told when I ordered them.

However, the tires that came in were substituted with a brand called "Sakura". Designation, 2.74-14 6PR. Logo is a Cherry blossom, Country of origin is Taiwan/China. Well, I haven't seen Cheng Shin C183As in person before, so I accepted them.

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13270/normal_sidewall.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13270/sidewall.jpg)http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13270/normal_tread.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13270/tread.jpg)

Finally got around to mounting them yesterday. Was able to get them mounted with the assistance of cinching furniture strap, a couple of hand-made tire levers, some liquid soap, a bicycle frame pump, and all the good advice found on this forum. Trying out tubeless first. Will put in tubes if I find blowouts are a problem.

They _just_ clear the fenders without any shaving. There is a tiny amount of rubbing only when turning hard, so I may put off any shaving for awhile. The right fender, slightly cracked by the previous owner when they broke the first kickstand, buzzes when traveling at just the right (low) speed. I guess the vibration caused by the widely spaced knobs in the tread sets up a resonance. I'll see if I can find a way to dampen out that vibration, although it makes for an interesting pedestrian alert.

I have them inflated at around 35 psi, will reduce to 20 in a few days. Just want to make sure the bead sets. So of course they're a little rough so far. But more noticeable at lower speeds, not so much at higher speeds. I have a double-layer comfort pad, so the buzzing isn't too bad.

But the best part is the extra confidence one gets when carving turns. Reminds me of this old Tigerpaws commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hc_expHAJo). http://www.tvparty.com/vgifs9/tigerpaws.gif I wasn't old enough to even be thinking about driving when they still showed it on TV, but that series of Tigerpaws commercials was quite memorable, at least for me.

The grip is so good, I've been practicing lifting one wheel already. Haven't lasted more than a couple of seconds yet. I usually go straight-ish when one tire is up, haven't figured out how to make a complete turn-around either.

I've yet to muddy them up, maybe I'll post a follow up later.

P.S. An interesting aside, the store neglected to remove the packing list from the distributor when they handed the tires over to me. I found that the tires were shipped from Drag Specialties in Grapevine, Texas via UPS ground (9 pounds), and that the unit price of each tire is $12.40. So that was a S&H charge of $8.60 for each tire. I imagine the dealer pays for the UPS ground charge out of the $17.20 difference (of the total MSRP). Not bad, when you consider some of the low priced on-line tire places charge $10 "Handing" per tire on top of shipping.

[KSagal]

The Chen Shin 183s are what Jon and I called the 'Super Ketts' over the last few years. There are several of them out there, because I sold some sets. Some fit with no problem, some were a bit too big... I still have several sets.

I do not know about the Sakura tires, but the tread looks identical.

A note worth considering... I bought a few sets, mounted them, and they fit. I then bought more, mounted them, and some fit and some did not, but I always used my own machine for a test, and on the same wheels. To me this indicated that the tires were not consistant, and since the tolerance to the fender is only a few milimeters, that variance is important.

I have run my Chen Shin 183s and like them, as pretty much nothing will stop them, and they are not too noisy or bumpy, but are far more noisy and bumpy than originals and the regular ketts tread design. (Chen Shin 186 and Kings Trials)

Good luck on these tires. Wear them well.

One last thing that I like about these heavy rubber tires is that they act like old fasioned tires in turns, in that they flex, dig in, and then spring into the turn more than the flatter originals... They feel more like the seg is more responsive to the carving of turns, for me at least. I find this a lot of fun...

They do track dirt like crazy, as well as mark some floors, so be aware...

[martinbogo]

I recently came across a new 60/100-14 tire that might be interesting, and COLORFUL.


Tires unlimited - MiniMX tires (http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Innova%20MC/innova_3202_3203.htm)

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/images/Innova%20MX/mxcolors.jpg

[KSagal]

I recently came across a new 60/100-14 tire that might be interesting, and COLORFUL.


Tires unlimited - MiniMX tires (http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Innova%20MC/innova_3202_3203.htm)

http://www.tiresunlimited.com/images/Innova%20MX/mxcolors.jpg


That looks like a great find... does anyone run these tires yet?

[cadavev]

That looks like a great find... does anyone run these tires yet?

thinking about a orange set right now i assume our stock tubes will work with these?

[bud01234]

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=463&fullsize=1

I have just worked out how to upload pics so i will get some more done soon.

Maybe need to keep working on the upload pics? :)

[SLong]

That looks like a great find... does anyone run these tires yet?

Segway of Oakland has a bunch of the XT version.

[martinbogo]

I ordered a blue set of tires, and expect them to arrive Mon or Tuesday. I think the original tube will work with this tire, but just in case, I've also sourced some alternate tubes.

I know these will probably /have/ to run tubed though. I wouldn't want to run them tubeless.

[cadavev]

where did you source the tubes from same place?

[martinbogo]

where did you source the tubes from same place?

Nope, I ordered those from my local Segway shop. the problem is always the same -- the position of the fill valve.

[KSagal]

I use the segway tube as well, but mount it facing the other way... I then drilled a small hole (I/2 inch) in the rim, and put a 1 inch valve stem extension...

Now I simply fill the tires with air from the outside, like a normal human...

The filler is still behind my spinning hubcaps, so there is no problem at all.

[cadavev]

humm guess i'll look into that and making a new hole in the front of the rim is no issue to me if it easier to fill that way i like it.

[martinbogo]

Four days after ordering them, the tires have arrived. Here are the photos:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3612166840_2c3aa2dc52.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3606/3612166660_f216963434.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3612166384_f460c6ee58.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3612165730_caa7b7e92c.jpg

[cadavev]

cant wait to see them on your machine!

[C3RS]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: thanks for this feedback !

[martinbogo]

I'm going to attempt the tire replacement this weekend, but I have a couple concerns.

The tires I bought are marked 60/100-14 and have a motorcycle marking of (2.5-14). Should I have bought 2.75? These tires look like the sidewalls are closer to each other than the regular Segway tires would be. Will they expand width-wise to touch and hit the bead?

Is there anything the members here in chat would suggest I look at, tools I should have on hand, before I attempt the replacement?

-Martin

[Gihgehls]

I'm going to attempt the tire replacement this weekend, but I have a couple concerns.

The tires I bought are marked 60/100-14 and have a motorcycle marking of (2.5-14). Should I have bought 2.75? These tires look like the sidewalls are closer to each other than the regular Segway tires would be. Will they expand width-wise to touch and hit the bead?

Is there anything the members here in chat would suggest I look at, tools I should have on hand, before I attempt the replacement?

-Martin

Just don't damage your tubes when you umount the stock tires.

[bentbiker]

Is there anything the members here in chat would suggest I look at, tools I should have on hand, before I attempt the replacement?There was a really good video produced by DFW Segway, for possible use by INC, before the store was sold. It continued on the Texas Segway website for awhile, but appears now to have been removed. Does anybody know where to find it?

As for tools, you need something to break the bead on the tire and that video recommended a woodworker's clamp like http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4854 . Wear work gloves as the wheel can have sharp edges. And of course you need a set of bicycle tire irons.

[Tarkus]

I'm going to attempt the tire replacement this weekend, but I have a couple concerns.

The tires I bought are marked 60/100-14 and have a motorcycle marking of (2.5-14). Should I have bought 2.75? These tires look like the sidewalls are closer to each other than the regular Segway tires would be. Will they expand width-wise to touch and hit the bead?

Is there anything the members here in chat would suggest I look at, tools I should have on hand, before I attempt the replacement?

-Martin

Most 2.75 tires won't fit under the rims.
The sidewalls may be a little narrower than stock tires.

Check out this link for mounting:
http://home.gci.net/~glen/segway/tire2/tire2.html

Be Big,
AMAC

[bentbiker]

There was a really good video produced by DFW Segway, for possible use by INC, before the store was sold. It continued on the Texas Segway website for awhile, but appears now to have been removed. Does anybody know where to find it?

As for tools, you need something to break the bead on the tire and that video recommended a woodworker's clamp like http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=4854 . Wear work gloves as the wheel can have sharp edges. And of course you need a set of bicycle tire irons.
I forgot the most important thing -- remove the tire from the outside of the rim, not the inside as was the case for the Gen1. The dropwell positioning makes this a necessity.

[C3RS]

any new picture of the final segway ? :)

[C3RS]

New feedback for Heidenau K66 (standard internal structure, not the snowtex with silicate structure). ;)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4168/cimg6870.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8436/cimg6869.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8315/cimg6866s.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3007/cimg6865.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6734/cimg6886.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8408/cimg6887.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/231/cimg6889.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1020/cimg6893.jpg

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5072/cimg6895.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5120/cimg6898.jpg

[Gihgehls]

Cool pics! It is nice to see how close the tread is to the inner walls.

[jgbackes]

I added pictures of the tread patterns to the wiki page

Enjoy

WIKI Tire Guide (http://social.segway.com/wiki/Tire_Guide)

[C3RS]

for last picture, here is the spec.

Heidenau K 66
80/80 -14 RF TT 43J M/C

> RF = reinforced
> TT = Tube tire
> M/C = motocycle (high load) and chopper (light load)
> J = max 100km/h
> Segway Tire = 1,05 bars
> Heidenau K66 = 1,5 bars
> work with tube of original segway (100/65-14), use talc (for baby) to insert in tire.
> inflat at 3 bars MAX to assemble the tire correctly (wait 2-5mins)
> and low to 1,5 bars to glide as a normal 1,05 bars segway tire

:o

[Joushou]

1.5 bars is going to give a bumpier ride than 1.05 bar... it will be better for the tires, but tougher for your knees/gearboxes (If you have an old model, and drop off high curbs often...)...

Just making sure you know! :)

[Civicsman]

> inflat at 3-6 bars to assemble the tire correctly (wait 2-5mins)
> and low to 1,5 bars to glide as a normal 1,05 bars segway tire


This could be some seriously dangerous information.

I don't have any specifications on this tire, but with a working pressure of 1.5 bars (~22 PSI), then 3 bars (~44 PSI) is double working pressure and 6 bars ((~87 PSI) is four times working pressure.

Tires in the US are required to have a maximum pressure that should never be exceeded. This pressure can be found written on the sidewall. 6 bar might be OK for this particular tire, but I have seen tires explode from overpressure, and you really don't want this to happen.

[C3RS]

not a work pressure, an assembly process pressure...NOT RIDE WITH THIS ! :p i use 1,5 bars and the tire is the same scenario of the segway at 1,05 bars.

[Joushou]

Yes, you only use this pressure to push the walls out, and seal the wheel, but if the tire was never designed to hold this pressure, even without load, you could be in serious danger while sealing it... Try to keep close to the specs, there's a reason for them ;)

[C3RS]

:) some other technical spec... ;)
EDIT: i have verified my compressor...it's 3 bars MAX, the indicator for assembled process.

41 Psi max IN LOAD (but for assembled process, you can use 44 psi...NOT RIDE with this)
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1678/image2qk.jpg

:eek: thanks to have verified my spec. feedback... :thumbsup:

[C3RS]

Heidenau K66 feedback

- at 1,5 bars (22 psi), you have the same scenario of the segway tire (use the 1/2 or 3/4 of the tire band and hard bump on degraded road).

- at 1,05 bars (15 psi), you have a comfortable glide with a tiny shock absorber...like the segway tire with 0,8 bars (11 psi).
You use the entery tire band for all traction in the turning at max speed and max corner of LeanSteer.

- now, the bad conclusion...i have loose range. When i can ride 8 kms ~ 5 miles for 2 bars used on infokey, i only ride 6 kms ~ 3,7 miles for the same 2 bars used. :(
tested with 1,5 bars on a 15 kms ~ 9,3 miles trip (mix of grass, beton pavement and bitume road and a climb).

:p if i don't apreciate this, i think that i will buy a slick alternate tire to test an other time.
then, if it's the same résult, i return to the segway tire... [B)] (2 alternates tires = 1 segway tire for price...)

[Joushou]

Well, even though the higher pressure should help on the range, the tire itself is a high-traction tire, and traction is more or less reverse-proportional to the energy required to turn it, therefore you loose range if you gain traction... Look at the x2, for example...

I'm glad that you didn't just inflate the tire to make it "pop out", but stayed within the limits... You never know, someone might just have pumped it until it sealed... Or exploded.

[C3RS]

Sava MC26 picture (available in 80/80-14)
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/4929/image4fm.jpg


Duro DM-1059 picture (available in 80/80-14)
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5576/image2ma.jpg

[Bob.Kerns]

A nice collection -- I didn't realize there were so many options.

I'm surprised, however, that there's no IRC-SN23 listing?

(Which I keep calling SN24 by error, but caught myself this time...)

[C3RS]

Page 5
http://forums.segwaychat.com/showpost.php?p=143068&postcount=42 :D

[verogolfer]

The Chen Shin 183s are what Jon and I called the 'Super Ketts' over the last few years. There are several of them out there, because I sold some sets. Some fit with no problem, some were a bit too big... I still have several sets.

I do not know about the Sakura tires, but the tread looks identical.

A note worth considering... I bought a few sets, mounted them, and they fit. I then bought more, mounted them, and some fit and some did not, but I always used my own machine for a test, and on the same wheels. To me this indicated that the tires were not consistant, and since the tolerance to the fender is only a few milimeters, that variance is important.

I have run my Chen Shin 183s and like them, as pretty much nothing will stop them, and they are not too noisy or bumpy, but are far more noisy and bumpy than originals and the regular ketts tread design. (Chen Shin 186 and Kings Trials)

Good luck on these tires. Wear them well.

One last thing that I like about these heavy rubber tires is that they act like old fasioned tires in turns, in that they flex, dig in, and then spring into the turn more than the flatter originals... They feel more like the seg is more responsive to the carving of turns, for me at least. I find this a lot of fun...

They do track dirt like crazy, as well as mark some floors, so be aware...
I'm just over 2900 mile on my original I2 tires - tread is pretty well gone but they still run OK. It's 2000 road/sidewalk miles (mostly FL) and 900 golf course miles (mostly MA/NH).

I'm thinking I'm pretty close to the time for replacement, and am wondering about alternatives - would like a little more bite on the golf course, but don't want to sacrifice range on the road/sidewalk.

Any recommendations?

[jgbackes]

I'm just over 2900 mile on my original I2 tires - tread is pretty well gone but they still run OK. It's 2000 road/sidewalk miles (mostly FL) and 900 golf course miles (mostly MA/NH).

I'm thinking I'm pretty close to the time for replacement, and am wondering about alternatives - would like a little more bite on the golf course, but don't want to sacrifice range on the road/sidewalk.

Any recommendations?


IRC-SN23 from Segway of Oakland. Great traction, smooth ride, decent battery live (If you pump them up a little)

[C3RS]

Duro HF-290 picture (available in 80/80-14)
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7169/image2ne.jpg

;) after the small test of Heidenau K66 (reinforced, not the snowtex), I have lost too much autonomy.
A normal ride of 14 kilometers use 6 infokey bars ... with segway tire, i can run 24 kilometers with the same 6 infokey bars. :rolleyes:

so ... the futures tires are bid, it's the Duro HF290. :D
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6079/image3f.jpg

if I don't recover autonomy, I would go on Sava MC26 (post-picture on the top of this page). :o

[C3RS]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5510/image1db.jpg

So, it's not the Duro HF-290 (not longer manufactured), but the replacement with the semi-slick Duro HF-346-2 (Reinforced, too...that's the "2" after the ref., i think).

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9387/cimg6923.jpg

not asked me anything, I do not blame my tire dealer... :p

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6753/cimg6916.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1771/cimg6920.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8928/cimg6926.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2333/cimg6927.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7019/cimg6933.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2706/cimg6937.jpg

Now...at the assembly, we have a "temporary" problem...the diameter or, more precisely, the storage of tires.

the tire rubbing the fender segway. :D :eek:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8953/cimg6934.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8890/cimg6935.jpg


So, all you have to do is glide a few miles to put the tire up on the tube.
the tire is formed correctly and no longer rubbing even running quickly or turn stongly.

You can accelerate this process with a 1 kilometer of slalow at slow or high speed on your residencial street (with no cars). :thumbsup:

[Joushou]

Hmm... I suppose i would have unmounted the fenders while having it fall in place...

[C3RS]

:p failed test for 60/100-14 with a segway original tube...
Kyoto KT6014C not work in 100/65-14.

The tube have no place in the 60/100-14 cross tyre.

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/454/cimg6962.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3408/cimg6963.jpg

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7842/cimg6965.jpg

[C3RS]

New pic of DURO HF-346-2 ... after 150 kilometers.

- less limitor on degraded terrain than the segway tire
- less impact for low temperature (0°C to 20°C, same noise and grip)
- always "soft" rubbing the fender segway after 150 kilometer when it rain or you have sand/gravel on tire (Tire wear will reduce this)
- better brake on wet surface than segway tire
- less "bumb" on degraded terrain at same pressure (1,05 bars)

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6536/cimg6978.jpg

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4366/cimg6979r.jpg

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7133/cimg6980.jpg

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6708/cimg6981.jpg

[greg44311]

My dealer is so frustrating, I need to find an established conversion to i2 tires. He NEVER calls you back, I even asked him for cards to pass out because SO MANY people have questions. He can't even take the time to do that.

[Grizzly]

I am thinking about some improvements to my Segway.
I want a bit more ground clearance, I could use a bit more "air cushion", and it would be nice to have a little more top speed :+)

Is there a tire with more hight that could do the trick ?
And is there a convertion kit to raise the fender so it could fit a bigger tire?

[i1 2move]

Just mounted my new tires. Bought them at ebay Germany for 19.-€ each plus 9.-€ tube. freight from Germany to Portugal was about 30€ and took 4 days.
KYOTO 60/100-14 (60-100-14) Michelin Starcross-Replica bought at ebay seller "tersicher2004". Very good Grip, smooth riding, much better than Michelin Originals. Only thing: also here the rims stick a little out, but I do not regard this as critical for private use. For Rental business it might be a rim-killer...:cool:
pictures:
www.segsandthecity.eu/tires1.jpg
www.segsandthecity.eu/tires2.jpg

[edutain1]

Hi All,
I see the list of tires but can't seem to get them in Australia, where do you suggest I can get them online?

Thanks
Owner i2

[edutain1]

Don't bother, I found http://www.glide4less.com/ and they have good ones.
In my case the Aussie dealer had some local at A$125 each!!

[BringOnI2]

I spotted this in a PDF catalogue from http://www.savatyres.com.au/contact.html:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2398/savaw.png

Sava MC 32 "Winter" 100/70 2.50-14

There's also 80/80 there, but is it better to go for ones closer to the 100/65 of the tyres that came with the i180?

[BringOnI2]

Sava could only give me quotes for these right now:

sctr-norm 14 511750 100/70-14 TL/TT R Capri 53L MC 26 $49.00

sctr-norm 14 511668 80/80-14 TL/TT R Capri 53L MC 26 $44.00

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8626/savacapri.png

[Seginaway]

are there any options for X2's that anyone has found useful? My original X2 knobbies are still good after 5,000 miles but the center rib is worn down to the point that replacement will need to be considered in the next 1,000 or so miles.

[Ed65]

Hi, I have bought a couple of Maxxis Razor2 tires and they look a little bit like the
original X2 tires. Or you can buy the Maxxis Razor.

Ed

[Seginaway]

Ed,

Thanks for the info. They look to match fairly well except for the solid middle rim. Did they match the OEM rims exactly, was a tube required and what PSI do you use?

How many miles/kms did you get out of your OEM tires?

[PeteInLongBeach]

are there any options for X2's that anyone has found useful? My original X2 knobbies are still good after 5,000 miles but the center rib is worn down to the point that replacement will need to be considered in the next 1,000 or so miles.

Here:

http://tinyurl.com/336fkrp

You'll find plenty of options for a variety of conditions ( trail, mud, snow, sand, etc), such as here :

http://www.4atvtires.com/atvTires/showCategory.php?id=1

[Ed65]

Ed,

Thanks for the info. They look to match fairly well except for the solid middle rim. Did they match the OEM rims exactly, was a tube required and what PSI do you use?

How many miles/kms did you get out of your OEM tires?

I am sorry, but I can´t answer all your questions. I converted my I2 to X2.
I bought Douglas Blue label wheels and the Maxxis 23x7-10.
I use different PSI´s, on the beach almost empty and when I glide on the
road 13 PSI or more.Where I live most roads and bicycle lanes are asfalt
roads. More PSI´s, the faster I go.

[PeteInLongBeach]

I am sorry, but I can´t answer all your questions. I converted my I2 to X2.
I bought Douglas Blue label wheels and the Maxxis 23x7-10.
I use different PSI´s, on the beach almost empty and when I glide on the
road 13 PSI or more.Where I live most roads and bicycle lanes are asfalt
roads. More PSI´s, the faster I go.

Since the factory x2 tires are 21 inch, do you find the 23 inch tires still fit under the x2 fenders?

[Ed65]

Since the factory x2 tires are 21 inch, do you find the 23 inch tires still fit under the x2 fenders?

Yes Pete, they fit easy and without a problem.
The tires do still have almost 1 inch space at the front of the fender
before they touch the fender.
I found all the tips and tricks from several people on the following thread,Wheel Measuring Question...

The wheels that I found work perfectly are a 2n+3b, 10x7 spun aluminum ATV wheel. There are lots of these on the market, just find the lightest cheapest one available and it will work fine. The tires that I used were 23x7x10 (yes they will fit under X2 fenders just fine) Goodyear EMTs that I found very cheaply on fleabay.

Keep in mind all of this assumes you have the X2 fenders and mounting flanges already for the larger wheels. I converted my i2 and never looked back. It's MUCH better with the larger wheels, even in an urban environment (IMNSHO).

Many thanks again to Jim, as the information in this thread allowed me to put together a complete conversion package for ~$300 using a combination of new and used parts, as opposed to spending $200 each for a wheel and tire only on eBay. SegwayChat is the place to be to get the best information on Segways.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Yes Pete, they fit easy and without a problem.
The tires do still have almost 1 inch space at the front of the fender
before they touch the fender.
I found all the tips and tricks from several people on the following thread,Wheel Measuring Question...

Ah, this is great to know. I recently bought a "kit" of x2 parts for my i2, and was wondering if a larger diameter tire would fit. Thanks for the information.

[Seginaway]

I am sorry, but I can´t answer all your questions. I converted my I2 to X2.
I bought Douglas Blue label wheels and the Maxxis 23x7-10.
I use different PSI´s, on the beach almost empty and when I glide on the
road 13 PSI or more.Where I live most roads and bicycle lanes are asfalt
roads. More PSI´s, the faster I go.

Makes sense to use different PSI for different terrain. I do. Even though I have an X2, I mostly glide on asphalt and/or compacted pathways for my daily commute. Lower PSI provides comfort for my soon to be replaced hips though I pump 'em up when I have a long Glide ahead.

The only time I use the lower PSI, 4-6, is when I'm out in the woods with Roc Independence Maverick chasing birds or running in the woods for fun.

[Seginaway]

Here:

http://tinyurl.com/336fkrp

You'll find plenty of options for a variety of conditions ( trail, mud, snow, sand, etc), such as here :

http://www.4atvtires.com/atvTires/showCategory.php?id=1

Good luck with the conversion.

I'm gathering from your post that I should look for 21x7x10, though the response from "Ed65" suggests that a 23" tire will fit. Not to get into all of the SPEED questions on SegwayChat but shouldn't a 23" vs. the OEM 21" increase top-end speed at the expense of low-end torque? (Your previous posts suggest an expertise in evaluating numbers, so I felt the freedom to ask, forgive me if that is not the case).

Does the 21x7x10 fit the OEM rim with or without a tube? Frankly, I don't even know if my current Segway OEM has a tube. Does it? I appreciate your response. Thanks.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Good luck with the conversion.

I'm gathering from your post that I should look for 21x7x10, though the response from "Ed65" suggests that a 23" tire will fit. Not to get into all of the SPEED questions on SegwayChat but shouldn't a 23" vs. the OEM 21" increase top-end speed at the expense of low-end torque? (Your previous posts suggest an expertise in evaluating numbers, so I felt the freedom to ask, forgive me if that is not the case).

Does the 21x7x10 fit the OEM rim with or without a tube? Frankly, I don't even know if my current Segway OEM has a tube. Does it? I appreciate your response. Thanks.

The factory x2 tire is a tubeless 21x7-10. As you mentioned, a 23" diameter tire will increase the top speed, and probably reduce torque somewhat, probably negligible.

[Gihgehls]

Electric motors have more torque at low end than at the high end.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Electric motors have more torque at low end than at the high end.

I guess I meant that the physical response of a larger diameter tire to the same torque value or torque limit might be less.

[thrasher187]

I am concerned that these tires will track dirt or snow inside stores and create a negative image. I have an x2 that is just aliile too wide to get through doorways but I hate the idea of giving up the offroad capabilitys

[vip1980]

[QUOTE=BillPaxton;Hi Alan, I got mine from domiracer but they only have one tyre left.. you are looking for IRC Trial 2.75x1.4 and I think you can get them from any Tire Kingdom for around USD$34 + shipping or if you can't find them email me and I can get them and send them to you at cost +shipping. This tyre is spectacular tho, and I think, with all due deference to Karl, the era of METTs has been ushered in. Antony has found our next great tyre pics QUOTE]

Hi,

Will this tyre fit......? I think it's the same tire only another profile....

it's the VRM-100 2.75 -14 TT 43J from the delti dot com website under the motorcycle's

(Can not post the website because unable to post links, because mine caunt is under 5) :mad:

[AggiePhil]

I haven't had to replace my factory Segway tires yet, but when the time comes, I'm planning to stick with the same ones. Reason is, I like the fact that they are made of a composite material that is non-marring on indoor floors. Yes, it wears faster on concrete. But I like being able to tell wary shop owners that "the Segway tires are made of a composite material that won't mar your floors."

[PeteInLongBeach]

I haven't had to replace my factory Segway tires yet, but when the time comes, I'm planning to stick with the same ones. Reason is, I like the fact that they are made of a composite material that is non-marring on indoor floors. Yes, it wears faster on concrete. But I like being able to tell wary shop owners that "the Segway tires are made of a composite material that won't mar your floors."

I agree. I live in a vintage highrise, and I need all the backup I can get to justify wheeling it through the lobby and elevators. With the non-marring tires, I have been able to show that it presents less potential impact to its surroundings than every-day items like rolling luggage, baby strollers, concierge carts, laundry carts, wheelchairs, dollies, etc.

[eJM]

I have never had to answer questions from a shop owner about my tires. In the 4 years I have been going in and around various public, private and commercial establishments, neither the ATV asphalt racing tires nor the motorcycle tires I use have caused any damage or maintenance issues. It's a non-issue.

Jim

[PeteInLongBeach]

Jim,
I can assure you, your non-issue can certainly be a perceived issue when homeowner associations are trying to create or invoke regulations and protections where none are needed. All I was saying was that referring to Segway's declared and published specification of "non-marking/marring" tires can help reduce concerns about wheeling it through certain residental / common / public / commercial areas.

[Gihgehls]

I have never had to answer questions from a shop owner about my tires. In the 4 years I have been going in and around various public, private and commercial establishments, neither the ATV asphalt racing tires nor the motorcycle tires I use have caused any damage or maintenance issues. It's a non-issue.

Jim

You should see a hotel lobby after a Segway convention. I can assure you that aftermarket tires are far from a non-issue.

[segsurfer]

You should see a hotel lobby after a Segway convention. I can assure you that aftermarket tires are far from a non-issue.

Yeah, highly polished floors do tend to show marks when people pivot in place with aftermarket tires, also broom finish sidewalks are a magnet for marks. X2 tires are especially bad on broom finish.
-segsurfer

[KSagal]

You should see a hotel lobby after a Segway convention. I can assure you that aftermarket tires are far from a non-issue.

I use aftermarket tires from time to time. I aftermarketed many. But I also use segway branded michelins, the gen 1 etts, and I believe they are not non-marking.

As was stated, many segway branded tires also leave marks. The problem is not aftermarket tires, the problem is that some tires are designed to not leave marks and many others are not designed with this in mind.

[PeteInLongBeach]

As was stated, many segway branded tires also leave marks.

How many are there? The standard factory-fitted tires on both the gen1 and gen2 on-road machines have the specification described as "non-marking". I wouldn't include the off-road / X-type tires in this, as those machines are not designed or meant for indoor use.

[KSagal]

How many are there? The standard factory-fitted tires on both the gen1 and gen2 on-road machines have the specification described as "non-marking". I wouldn't include the off-road / X-type tires in this, as those machines are not designed or meant for indoor use.

As far as I know, there was a silicone based tire developed for the Gen 1, and a different one developed for the i2. As far as I know, these two different tires are the only silicone (non marking) tires for segway.

I suspect that while they were the largest single group of tires sold for segway use, they are not the only tires, and I was simply saying that after market is not the appropriate label for segway tires that mark.

In addition to these tires, I am aware of an extra traction tire for the gen 1, (the Michelins I currently use on my I2), the Extra Traction tire for the Gen 2 (a design that looks identical to the standard I2 tire but with a different rubber compound), the X series tire for Gen 1, the X series tire for Gen 2, the Golf tire for gen 1 and the Golf tire for gen 2. All of these different tires were or have been offered by Segway Corporate, so none are actually after market. I personally have never seen the Extra traction tire for Gen 2, but I have seen all the other types.

I will agree that most of the non silicone based tires are specifically designed for off road, (or at least outdoors) and therefore not intended for hotel lobbies, so the point is very reasonable that their marking in that location would not be something that the factory would think reasonable, as they are marketed to be somewhere else.

My comment was intended to respond to the title of 'after market tires' not so much to respond to using these non-silicone tires in hotels. Of course, broom swept concrete surfaces was also mentioned, and I don't think of that as an indoor surface, yet is very much, if not more so, affected by these tires and their marks.

[Gihgehls]

True, I hadn't considered ETTs (no longer in production) nor XT tires. I guess what I should have said was "non-factory-standard i2 tires."

[PeteInLongBeach]

I'm gathering from your post that I should look for 21x7x10, though the response from "Ed65" suggests that a 23" tire will fit. Not to get into all of the SPEED questions on SegwayChat but shouldn't a 23" vs. the OEM 21" increase top-end speed at the expense of low-end torque? (Your previous posts suggest an expertise in evaluating numbers, so I felt the freedom to ask, forgive me if that is not the case).

Does the 21x7x10 fit the OEM rim with or without a tube? Frankly, I don't even know if my current Segway OEM has a tube. Does it? I appreciate your response. Thanks.

I just got my bonus at work, and I couldn't resist the temptation... I went out and bought a pair of 23" tires for the "x2" conversion:

http://www.mudthrowers.com/inc/sdetail/331

Got them mounted and installed today (damn that red locktight on the hub adaptor screws). Looks like I'm now getting over 15 mph top-speed, and I'm about 2" higher than on the original i2 tires (gotta watch those tree branches). My parking stand is almost too short now - I don't think some of the "lean-forward" type stands would work well with the height of this diameter tire. The sidewall knobs on this particular model's tread design just barely clear the fenders - there is still plenty of clearance on top, but they come very close at the front of the fenders. Overall, very happy with these !

[KSagal]

...I'm about 2" higher than on the original i2 tires ...


I am guessing you meant 2" higher than the X2 tires.



That is a sweet looking rig. It looks pretty aggressive.

I think that set up puts the idea of some segway tires leaving marks to bed. It gives the impression that if it leaves the carpet or the tiles still on the floor, the shop owner should thank you.

Good luck with it. Looks like fun.

[PeteInLongBeach]

I am guessing you meant 2" higher than the X2 tires.

No, I really did mean the platform is now about 2" higher than the original i2 tires (remember this machine was originally an i2).

i2 standard tires: 19" diameter
x2 standard tires: 21" diameter
x2 bear claw tires: 23" diameter

The new x2 tires are 4" larger in diameter than the original i2 tires, so 2" larger in radius from the axle.
Ground clearance now measures at about 5.5".

[KSagal]

No, I really did mean the platform is now about 2" higher than the original i2 tires (remember this machine is originally an i2).

i2 standard tires: 19" diameter
x2 standard tires: 21" diameter
x2 bear claw tires: 23" diameter

The new x2 tires are 4" larger in diameter than the original i2 tires, so 2" larger in radius from the axle. Ground clearance now measures at about the expected 5.5".

Thanks for the clarification. How is the performance with the tires. This for lack of some other objective measure, I would say is two steps larger. (each increase of tire size being a step)

I am sure there are some longer stopping times, and perhaps longer to max speed, although perhaps the same or similar time to get to 12.5 mph.

Anymore to share?

[PeteInLongBeach]

Thanks for the clarification. How is the performance with the tires. This for lack of some other objective measure, I would say is two steps larger. (each increase of tire size being a step)

I am sure there are some longer stopping times, and perhaps longer to max speed, although perhaps the same or similar time to get to 12.5 mph.

Anymore to share?

Performance feels similar to the factory x2 tires - a bit less responsive than the i2 tires, but quite adequate and far more comfortable. Also, something I've noticed on the x2 before, is the ability to stand in place with less oscillating.

The bear claw tires have a more aggressive tread, and for now I have the tires a bit overinflated for street use at 10 psi (instead of the recommended 4 psi for offroad use), so the tread knobs can be felt more underfoot at low speeds. The tread also makes more noise, which transmits somewhat through the hub adaptors and sounds kind of cool.

Other than the enhanced ride comfort, the other enhancement I like is the extra top speed - a bit over 15 mph. I'm also wondering if the larger circumference will translate into longer range, but I'll need to do some extended glides with my GPS, since the infokey will only calculate speed/distance related to 19" wheel rotations, and the 23" tires have a longer "stride" per rotation.

[AggiePhil]

Don't you generally get reduced range due to the increased weight of the tires putting more stress on the motors and batteries?

[PeteInLongBeach]

Don't you generally get reduced range due to the increased weight of the tires putting more stress on the motors and batteries?

The decreased x2 range is more from the increased rolling resistance due to the softer tire and larger footprint. The weight plays a lesser role in this. But, I'm wondering if the larger circumference of the 23" tires might offset this a bit.

[KSagal]

... I'm also wondering if the larger circumference will translate into longer range, but I'll need to do some extended glides with my GPS, since the infokey will only calculate speed/distance related to 19" wheel rotations, and the 23" tires have a longer "stride" per rotation.

Actually, GPS generally give pretty rounded off numbers, as it samples a fixed number of times per minute, and the longer the route, the more it compresses those samples the less accurate in the detail they get.

I have taken many long trips via car, the the longer the trip, the more the odometer and the trip meter on the GPS vary.

I would say the more accurate measure would be simple math. The odometer on the segway is similar to that of a car, in that it simply counts revolutions of the tires and translates that to distance.

If a single rotation of an i2 is 19 inches times 3.14, then you can figure a distance factor as your new tires as simply 23 inches times pi for the same rotation. The segway in this example will consider one revolution as 59.66 inches, but your tires will give it 72.22 instead. That is a factor of 21% farther. If these numbers were accurate, you could simply know that each mile recorded on the info key was actually 1.21 miles traveled. The accurate measured distance traveled for your tires may be a bit different than this, but the math will stay the same once you insert the proper and accurate distance traveled in one revolution.

Either way, you should be able to get a fairly accurate average of longer or shorter range, but I believe the info key will be a bit more accurate.

No mater how you slice it, those are good looking tires, and I wish you luck with them.

[dl1955]

That is awesome looking! Can you please tell me which 23" part number you ordered?

[PeteInLongBeach]

That is awesome looking! Can you please tell me which 23" part number you ordered?

Kenda Bear Claw 23-7-10, part number 082991080 :

http://www.mudthrowers.com/inc/sdetail/331

Keep in mind these are unidirectional tires ( arrow on the sidewall shows proper direction ) and must be mounted on the rims accordingly.

[KSagal]

Kenda Bear Claw 23-7-10, part number 082991080 :

http://www.mudthrowers.com/inc/sdetail/331

Keep in mind these are unidirectional tires ( arrow on the sidewall shows proper direction ) and must be mounted on the rims accordingly.

So... Y'all goin' Muddin?

[PeteInLongBeach]

So... Y'all goin' Muddin?

No, the dust from Quartzsite took long enough to clean off. [xx(]

I mainly installed the x2 hardware out of curiosity - ride quality, top speed enhancement, etc. But, I'm also enjoying its off-road benefits when I take it camping with my RV club. Nice to have this functional and convertible flexibility between the i2 and x2 hardware, depending on where I'll be using it, all without buying another complete machine.

Now, to see if I can get it into the car without removing the wheels...

[dl1955]

Kenda Bear Claw 23-7-10, part number 082991080 :

http://www.mudthrowers.com/inc/sdetail/331

Keep in mind these are unidirectional tires ( arrow on the sidewall shows proper direction ) and must be mounted on the rims accordingly.

Thanks PeteInLongBeach! :D

[PeteInLongBeach]

Now, to see if I can get it into the car without removing the wheels...

Well, I had my doubts... and I can hardly believe it fits (or that I can still lift it), but it ended up being ridiculously easy :eek:

[wmailhos]

Very cool. The Seg and the RX.... I had an 81 RX7 and drove the hell out of that my senior year of high school and all six years of college. Loved that car...

[vip1980]

Lost week i ordered some Sava MC 26 80/80 -14 TT/TL 53L tires, first i was excited if the tire will fit, but they fit like they are made for the segway.These tires are 2 cm smaller than the original.

http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?details=Ordern&cart_id=50079320.1107.18254&typ=R-139251&ranzahl=1&Breite=80&Quer=80&Felge=14&S_Z=-&weiter=0&kategorie=6&Ang_pro_Seite=15&Transport=P&dsco=1107&m_s=1

i will make som pictures this week.... :D

[Madsegs]

Hi All
I cannot believe that my years old thread is still going strong. I was emailed to have a look......
I am still around but enjoying life outdoors on my mountain bikes and running segway tour by day with little time online.
Update : Settled on Snow tyres K66 100/70-14 (+ 2 minutes each on a belt sander to remove the inner lip) for my entire fleet of gen 1´s. I have myself worn out all my Ketts and my last Metts (trail 5) will not make this yearend.
Remember 80/80 give loads of options/types but a slightly harder ride. Only change from the originals if you need/want more traction and choose a very soft snow compound if possible as on a segway as it will last long enough.
If you need more puncture protection just add 100ml caffelatex (360º protection up to 3 mm) to originals or alternatives.
Also bear in mind that inner tubes are often harder to find than tyres (if you need them- i fit them as standard).
Not one puncture in 6 years with 14 segways.
Not one broken segway in that time too.
Fenders....loads, stands and grips too, but they are wearable parts.

[dl1955]

Well, I had my doubts... and I can hardly believe it fits (or that I can still lift it), but it ended up being ridiculously easy :eek:

Very cool! Can I ask you if you needed to use the hub spacer like the one on the turf tire setup? Since they look a bit wider and wonder if they rub on the inside fenders.

thanks!

[PeteInLongBeach]

Very cool! Can I ask you if you needed to use the hub spacer like the one on the turf tire setup? Since they look a bit wider and wonder if they rub on the inside fenders.
thanks!

This tire setup resulted with a very slight rub going around corners only. So, I got a "turf" model spacer kit which eliminated that.

With the larger diameter tires, the i2 does well over 15 mph now, and rides nice and soft. But fair warning: this setup is best used in more open/rurual areas, as opposed to urban/city use. With the tires and spacers, it's really too big for a lot of sidewalks and doorways, so you have to get creative or restrictive about where to go. For a lot of my usage, I'm able to use small side streets with little traffic, beach walks, bike paths, etc., where I'm not going to risk catching a wheel on something or be unable to get through at all. For areas where regular sidewalks are the mostly the only alternative, and egress into buildings and other crowded areas is desired, this setup is not practical.

And, you must always stay aware and become accustomed to how much wider this setup is. With the regular i2, the wheel spacing is about shoulder width, so judging clearance is very intuitive (as intended in the design). With the X2/turf setup, you don't always realize how close those wheels are getting to obstacles, and the risk of catching a wheel on something is much greater. Don't ask me how I know this !

I do enjoy having the option of each setup, depending on where I'm using it. It's the best of both worlds, without having to buy another machine, and conversion takes about 15-20 minutes once you're all set-up and get accustomed to it.

[dl1955]

Thank you Pete! I have the X2 tires and turf tires with the spacer kit. I did what you've done by converting my I2 to an X2 or turf. Very quick conversion like you stated. I plan on changing out the stock X2 tires with these. :)

[Steve Lusardi]

I have an X2 golf model with the turf wheels and tires and they are not ideal. The wide turf tires inflated to 4 psi add quite a bit more resistance so they consume more battery energy over distance (limited range). Yes, they allow a higher speed than the i2, but they also offer less wheel torque and the X2 grade climbing ability is also reduced over the i2. Lastly, the X2 wheels are truly ugly. I think there are nicer tire options available for golf carts. Specifically, the 205/50-10 low profile turf tire. The rolling tire diameter of the standard tire is 20", the section width is 7.5" and the rim size is 10". Standard wheel has a 5 " width with a 2"/3" offset. The wheel bolt pattern is the standard ATV size of 4 by 156 mm. My replacement tire size of choice has a rolling diameter of 18" and a section width of 8" and a rim diameter of 10", but this tire requires a 7" wheel width. Unfortunately there are no inexpensive wheel options available for the Segway. So a custom wheel option is the only alternative. The new proposed tire will give a torque increase of 10% at the cost of 1.5 mph. No matter what wheel I choose, a wheel adapter will be required, but even the standard wheel from Segway uses an adapter and a 1/2" spacer. I am still looking for a lightweight rim that I can use. The best candidate I have found is the 10 x 7 -10 with a 3-4 offset by Douglas part number 014-09 called Red Label. If anyone in this community know of a better choice please let me know.

[dzmcmaster]

I was able to get some motorcross tires that were a similar diameter and have them installed. They cost $20 each so it was a good bargain and they work great after 9 months of use.

[didierx]

hi

do you know this rim is compatible http://www.atgwheel.com/ring/read/id/176.html


thx didier

[Paulvinet]

IRC Urban Snow also known as Urban Master. These tires are amazing. They don't mark floors! I use them year round, great grip on wet grass, ice and snow

[dudeman1961]

Love mine, too. For outdoors, they're great.